SuzukiSavage.com - Savage lady needs help

verslagen1

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #15 - 08/04/16 at 08:27:31

wotchutalkanaboutwillis ?

speed shifting, as in winding it out, WFO, clutchless progression through the gears... Bonneville style speed run.

Clutch, not being used, assuming no slip therefore no heat. easy peasy.
Belt, max tension, tear jerking pulses damped by rubber duckies all yelling aflac in progression.
Gears, all crying for mercy.
Dogs, each in turn are slammed into the house with barely a let up of the throttle and nary a wimper.

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SavageMan99 Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 391	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #16 - 08/04/16 at 08:39:42 I usually combine the two, Rev it and quickly shift on the down side of the Rev.
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Dave

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #17 - 08/04/16 at 09:05:30

Dave wrote on 08/04/16 at 07:29:28:

SavageMan99 wrote on 08/04/16 at 07:24:11:

Does speed shifting while also using the clutch help on our bikes?

Helps with the destruction of the clutch and belt....I betcha! Huh

I thought "speed shifting" was pulling in the clutch without letting off the gas.....then shifting to the next highest gear and popping the clutch to let the high revving engine momentum slam through the drive train!

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28834 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #18 - 08/04/16 at 10:39:41 Dave wrote on 08/04/16 at 09:05:30: I thought "speed shifting" was pulling in the clutch without letting off the gas.....then shifting to the next highest gear and popping the clutch to let the high revving engine momentum slam through the drive train! Ouch... that's just harsh.
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SavageMan99 Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 391	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #19 - 08/04/16 at 12:02:49 When I had my dirt bike, the chain bent the clutch rod, so I speed shifted it for a good year.
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Kenny G

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #20 - 08/04/16 at 12:18:00

For What It Is Worth

To me there is no worse repair to make than a motorcycle transmission in a modern unit constructed engine, clutch, transmission unit.

Before anyone gets in the habit of slam shifting and speed shifting they should have to pull the transmission and rebuild it.

Most guys will never learn to split the cases and repair a transmission.

Kenny G

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #21 - 08/04/16 at 20:08:28

In order:

Check shifter linkage. Rear pivot "finger" must point straight down to ensure proper shifting. Pull and reset, adjust rod length to suit.

Change the oil for 15w40 big rig oil. Modern motorcycle oils and car oils are not compatible with antique cam/followers or wet clutches. Remember, the rocker arms (followers) in our bikes debuted during the 19th century (yes, late 1860s technology).

Tighten the clutch cable. Savage/S40 LOVES nothing as much as it does stretching clutch cables. My 98 would demolish a couple of them a year. They suck unless you spend the coin for a Barnett cable. Motion Pro and stock cables are cheap Chinese junk.

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engineer Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 872 Gender:	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #22 - 08/05/16 at 13:13:41 We seem to have two definitions of speed shifting. I googled the topic and found that there is no consensus. Does anyone know of an "official" definition of speed shifting and how it differs from power shifting.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #23 - 08/05/16 at 13:22:51 The technique I outlined is smooth, quiet, quick, and limited to never shifting out of or into first. I never saw a change in the feel or sound of the transmission or the feel of regular shifting.
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verslagen1

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #24 - 08/05/16 at 13:31:46

From wiki...
Quote:

Powershifting, also known as full-throttle shifting or flat-shifting, (not to be confused with speed-shifting) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to reduce the time where the driving wheels are not powered. Unlike a normal gearchange, in a powershift the driver does not let off the accelerator (unlike speed-shifting, where the throttle is let off very quickly, simultaneously depressing the clutch and shifting into the next gear, rapidly). The clutch is briefly depressed while the shift lever is rapidly shifted into a higher gear, keeping the engine in its power band. In most cases, there is a method of cutting the ignition and/or fuel delivery, in a similar fashion to a rev-limiter, which prevents the engine from over-revving when the load from the transmission is removed. Many aftermarket[1] engine management systems provide this functionality as either a standard feature or as an option, usually combined with launch control.

This seems to be what Dave described as speed shifting... and yeah, it's hard on the clutch.

Whereas, speed shifting as described here, let's off the throttle to shift. The savage is quite capable doing it clutchless.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #25 - 08/05/16 at 13:44:47 Rider skill matters. I've driven eighteen wheelers and shifted without the clutch more than with. Downshift without a tach? Oil pressure gauge.
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Xbeaus YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 5	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #26 - 08/18/16 at 07:04:49 Tightened the clutch cable, plugged the breather hole and changed the oil. Had wayyyyyyy to much oil in it so that could have been an issue. Shifts like butter and doesn't lose any oil! Thanks again for all the help
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Savage lady needs help Reply #27 - 08/18/16 at 08:19:08 Why did you tighten the cable? You need some slack there... Enough to wiggle the lever with a fingertip. Some small gap between the lever and the pivot.
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CarnivalOfRust

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #28 - 08/19/16 at 20:26:55

verslagen1 wrote on 08/05/16 at 13:31:46:

From wiki...
Quote:

Powershifting, also known as full-throttle shifting or flat-shifting, (not to be confused with speed-shifting) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to reduce the time where the driving wheels are not powered. Unlike a normal gearchange, in a powershift the driver does not let off the accelerator (unlike speed-shifting, where the throttle is let off very quickly, simultaneously depressing the clutch and shifting into the next gear, rapidly). The clutch is briefly depressed while the shift lever is rapidly shifted into a higher gear, keeping the engine in its power band. In most cases, there is a method of cutting the ignition and/or fuel delivery, in a similar fashion to a rev-limiter, which prevents the engine from over-revving when the load from the transmission is removed. Many aftermarket[1] engine management systems provide this functionality as either a standard feature or as an option, usually combined with launch control.

This seems to be what Dave described as speed shifting... and yeah, it's hard on the clutch.

Whereas, speed shifting as described here, let's off the throttle to shift. The savage is quite capable doing it clutchless.

I powershift my dirt bikes when I think I'm going fast, or if I'm showing off and they can handle it, I do all of my own wrenching and haven't had to replace the frictions and steels in over 8 years. They are much lighter than the Savage though. I am not super comfy with street riding yet, but I doubt I'll ever be powershifting, maybe speed shifting, but only because that can be done smoothly. I believe it's the impact that shocks transmissions apart. I've worked on a couple dirt bike trans that were worn out, but I've seen far more that kinda exploded. The broken parts always involve a story about some sudden impact. I don't want my Savage to explode, I won't be powershifting. Wink

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Re: Savage lady needs help
Reply #29 - 01/08/18 at 09:38:12

verslagen1 wrote on 08/03/16 at 14:05:29:

clutch maybe dragging a bit which would cause the hard shifting.

while the owners manual does list the 20w-50 for high temp areas, the 50wt limits cooling flow.
And I don't see an improvement to go to the high wt. oil. Also could be causing the clutch drag.

Back by the neutral wire coming out of the case, are two marks that show the limits of the clutch throwout lever.
Hold the lever up with you hand to take the play out and compare the lever with the marks.

oil leaks are difficult, the dam stuff goes everywhere.
Plug the puke line, clean the engine, take a short ride and check.
It can even come from the oil fil cap up front or the speedo cable on top of the case.

There's a couple of threads at the top of the RSD you should read thru.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344399573
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366651397

How dose it limit cooling flow?

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