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Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn (Read 454 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
06/25/16 at 05:39:36
 

This is a tech discussion on our favorite oils, having to do with the constant slow drift in oil specs from year to year making our oils require additive packages, etc.

Secondary purpose is to educate the people who are new to the list as they often post "Huh, where did you hear that?" sorts of stuff when they read these discussions.


=======================================


I ran Rotella Synthetic 5w40 for as many years as it has existed and I have also been carefully watching the oil formulations slowly shift until early last year when Shell finally put enough moly oil into the Rot Syn mix to just barely start giving us start up clutch slippage issues on some of our more well worn clutches (mine being part of that population).

It was an early symptom, which originally went away when the engine got hot but slowly got worse until it was an ongoing nag.

At that time I proposed a test, for me to switch my motor back to dino based Rotella T Triple Protection 15w40 dino based oil and to report if the slipping issues abated after an oil change or two.

I am ready to report now.

All start up clutch slippage issues ended after 2 weeks into the first Rotella T dino 15w40 crankcase fill up.   All clutch slip issues (even under mountain trip abuse) ended at that time and have not returned at all, ever.

I still used the same amount of Red Line ZDDP additive in each crankcase, so that additive use is "neutral" to this test program.

(ZDDP additive is NEEDED in each crankcase nowadays for any off the shelf sort of oil)

Worth noting, dino based Rotella T Triple Protection does thin down more over long use and it does "exit the engine" much more so than Rot Syn when you are riding on the interstates.  

Conclusion -- if you begin to get start up clutch slippage off of Rot Syn, try switching back to dino based Rotella T Triple Protection and report what you see.

Since I started this effort, Shell has increased the PPM of moly oil in Rot Syn from 0 PPM to 30 PPM to more than 70 PPM (with more moly oil going into each new SL to SM to SN grade change).   We are tracking the effect of this slow change on our Savage clutches, and are NOT PLEASED at what we think we are seeing.
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #1 - 06/25/16 at 06:37:47
 
Maybe they are needing some feedback.
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #2 - 06/25/16 at 16:35:04
 
Thanks OF. I just bought a gallon of synthetic, but now I'm going to exchange it for Dino.
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #3 - 06/25/16 at 17:19:13
 

Rest easy, if your bike is relatively new you will likely see no issues.

This only shows on well worn clutches so far .....  (I think)

It also seems to be able to be reversed easily.    (which is a good thing)
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #4 - 06/25/16 at 18:46:08
 
Ok, my bike is a 05 with 7k miles . So far it runs fine. I guess I don't have to worry yet.
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #5 - 06/26/16 at 05:49:50
 
I've been running T6 5W40 synthetic in my bike for years. My 2007 has 30,000 miles on it and I haven't noticed any clutch slipping issues. And yes I do ride it like I stole it.
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #6 - 06/26/16 at 07:52:08
 
Is there any problem when you switch from synthetic back to dino?I'm not sure if i should  switch or not.
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« Last Edit: 06/26/16 at 11:27:25 by rl153 »  
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #7 - 06/26/16 at 07:56:21
 
If you've never ridden with OF, he embarrases riders who embarras me (not that embarrassing me on a bike is that hard to do) he is one of our 'big dog' riders
and his Savage is NOT stock, despite his protests to the contrary  Grin
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #8 - 06/26/16 at 10:23:16
 
I run 15W40 Rot dino with absolutely 0 problems...ever.

OF, do you have a link to specs for Rotella dino and synth that specify how much moly is in the oil?
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #9 - 06/26/16 at 13:59:44
 

My bike has everything done to it except a big piston.  Nothing shows, it is jest Granny's old putt putt Savage to look at it.   With a fat old guy riding it.

A Savage Sleeper special.  

Surprise, you musta been asleep at the switch to let that old fart blow past you like that.

    ....... so speed up a bunch and go catch him in the next set of turns .......


                                         go dude, you can do it


.....  pay absolutely no attention to the old dudes footpegs or to the outer edges of  his shoes, which carry on the same exact matching angle bevel .....


Seriously, there is a lot to like about Rot Syn, but the amount of moly oil in it keeps on going up and now it is well past the 30 ppm level that signaled the first issues ever reported on Rot Syn by list members.   It has now gone past the 60ppm level showed by the SN oil reconfiguration in some kind of attempt to meet some kind of a new HDEO test specification    Also note that the ZDDP is all the way down to the old SL car oil spec levels now .... so you gotta bump Rotella, both kinds now, 100% of the time.

We need to be WATCHING the T-6, but not being all frantic about it yet until we get some more proof and see some more tests reported about the newest formulations (yet unnamed).

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/shellrotellat6.htm       note: bottle was bought in 2014

The current interpretation of JASO is totally useless now, it means NOTHING except the oil was tested to JASO MA2 specs and it failed that test on at least one particular and was given a JASO as a "default rating".

Oils that claim "JASO only" are saying they FAILED their JASO MA2 testing in other words -- how badly they failed is totally an open thing right now.

When JASO cert drops off the T-6 bottle, that will be saying something very bad, when that happens.    

So far Rotella T dino triple protection has no moly in it at all ..... so far.


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« Last Edit: 06/26/16 at 15:47:19 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #10 - 06/26/16 at 14:40:10
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 06/26/16 at 13:59:44:
 Nothing shows, it is jest Granny's old putt putt Savage to look at it.   With a fat old guy riding it.

I think I'm confused... is it granny's or yours? or are you granny?
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #11 - 06/26/16 at 15:31:29
 

My Savage is a gift from my wife, her name really is on the title.  

It really is a Granny's sickle that is just ridden by a fat old man.

When I went in for my lower valve job, my daughter and my wife told me in the prep room (seriously) that the bike would be gone when I got out -- I told them that was a great idea to me, that the Kawasaki Vulcan S really looked right good to me at that point in time.

They got grumpy faced about then and left the bike alone ......
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #12 - 06/26/16 at 21:16:55
 
Old dude plays high stakes poker.. good move..
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #13 - 06/27/16 at 08:26:31
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 06/26/16 at 15:31:29:


When I went in for my lower valve job, my daughter and my wife told me in the prep room (seriously) that the bike would be gone when I got out -- I told them that was a great idea to me, that the Kawasaki Vulcan S really looked right good to me at that point in time.

They got grumpy faced about then and left the bike alone ......


Best way you could've handled it
'Take my fast toy, I'll get a faster one'  Cool
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Re: Tech talk on Rotella T & Rot Syn
Reply #14 - 06/28/16 at 15:17:41
 
Way to tell 'em OF! Gotta keep em on their heels least they gain traction!
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