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I hate to say this.........BUT. (Read 258 times)
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #30 - 06/04/16 at 23:25:37
 
JOG?... is that just a quote without any comment?...

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #31 - 06/05/16 at 06:54:23
 

For gods sake SOMEONE ANSWER THIS
How much unemployment is necessary to be able to hire cheap labor?
And, if the people who MAKE UP THE COUNTRY are too broke to buy your nuts, what Good is the cheapest labor?  




The point is we have millions of unemployed. And the Left pretend that the Reason why the border isn't protected is to ALLOW a source of cheap labor, and the Bubs demand that.


How many unemployed people are needed to provide a pool to draw from in Order to Get cheap labor?
That is a real question.


I'll wait, then add.
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #32 - 06/05/16 at 07:05:06
 
Look at the bright side JOG, Once we have a sufficient number of illegals willing to work for next to nothing, the manufacturing jobs can come back from overseas, "Made In America" stuff can be just as cheap and crappy as third world stuff is now - maybe even cheaper 'cause the transportation cost will be less. Win Win.

Except Americans won't be able to buy any of that sh*t on account of they won't have jobs.
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #33 - 06/05/16 at 07:22:36
 
Who needs cash?

We will be driven back to communal living, tribes, as the BIG city mentality, and life style, will prove unsustainable.

It is ripe with crime, graft, sin, corruption, pollution, energy depleting, disease, HUMONGOUS green footprint.....etc.

But city folk look down on flyover people and proclaim their way of living and thinking is progressive  Grin
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #34 - 06/05/16 at 07:26:53
 
Look,.. there will always be several million unemployed... Many of these are in transition, re-educating, seasonal, injured, family health or crisis, or just taking a break...
Some, are having trouble finding suitable employment... and some don't want employment right now.
... but most American citizens aren't willing to take a minimum wage job...
Maybe some kids working after school, or over the summer... and then the truly desperate...

So,.. it's not any certain number of unemployed,...
At this minimum wage level, it is the number of absolutely desperate...

That said,...  I think you already knew that,.. but you repeat a rhetorical question enough... I'm gonna' give you the answer you already know...
... just to stop the wailing...

Can we move on now?... Huh
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Radical Maximus
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #35 - 06/05/16 at 15:50:38
 
WebsterMark wrote on 06/04/16 at 05:25:40:
The Left is pushing things society isn't ready for and the Right isn't willing to give any ground where people are ready to progress to, and neither side is willing to compromise.


Two points Rad
1) Why is left leaning change automatically assigned the phrase "progress"?  You don't make dramatic changes in your own life very often, in fact, you probably carefully consider the ramifications of "hope and change" before you alter your previous choices and more often than not, you don't "change". Change for the sake of change rarely turns out good. Just exactly where has this "progress" brought us to? Are you going to celebrate a pervert calling himself a girl and going into female dressing rooms? That's progress? Massive cradle-to-grave bankrupting entitlements is progress? A federal minimum wage that will throw hundreds of thousands out of work (Congressional interns exempted of course), a healthcare system that's forcing working class into the ranks of uninsured while the 94 million not in the workforce rake in part of my tax contribution? You mean that progress?

2) The right always ends up comprising, the left rarely or never does. The left sits on a tiny moral foundation so its not an issue to them. Once you have a stated position a woman with an unborn child can kill it at anytime and for any reason and now the killers can make even more money off that death by selling the parts, tell just exactly what it is that the left finds so dehumanizing that they won't go there?




Thanks for making my point, you are obviously on the right and and skew your venomous language and facts in that direction.  I said nothing about the Transgender issue, nor any specific issue for that matter did I?

The truth is the Right almost never compromises, they are usually forced there by court orders (e.g. desegregation) and even then try try to ignore or circumvent the orders (e.g. Gay marriage).  Not all left ideas are progress, I love meat, drink beer and drive a gasoline vehicle.  Again, not all left ideas are labeled progress, some are just Left Wing radicalism (Federal Student Lunch Program) just like the Right wing garbage.  The left has to try and use court orders when society pushes back instead of social education initiatives.

This is further evidenced by your use of abusive vitriol.  A transgender is not automatically a pervert, they are a human that looks at the world from a different perspective than you do.  I don't think any law will keep a pervert from acting like a pervert.    I lean to a reasonable progressive stance (Not Left) and don't agree with the bathroom issue, I think a 3rd bathroom option (Trans, Confused.. small winky) is the only reasonable compromise presented, with the existing bathrooms being biology based.

And FYI: There are no cradle-to-grave bankrupting entitlements, More right wing garbage talk. That ended with the Welfare reform act under Bill Clinton, 20 years ago+... get your poison in the right bottles

Perverts, Killers... excitement words... Hundreds of thousands out of work?  Where is the statistics from a neutral party?  That happened under the watch or the Right if I remember correctly... I recall the Right taking a Budget that was Balanced through Left/Right negotiation in the late 90's and giving it all away in the form of Tax cuts to the rich in the early 2000's.  

As for progress, lets talk the environment, water is cleaner, air is cleaner, pesticide use is regulated.  Society: Desegregation, Child Labor, Woman's Suffrage, cigarette smoking is on the decline...  Many of these took Decades to implement and enough of society had to be ready for them in order for them to work.  Some might still resist to this day but it would be a very small minority and most would agree that these things have made the USA better place.

So, Left is Left, Right is Right, and Progress is Progress.  Progress has been proposed under both Right and Left administrations and neither side gets to claim Progress exclusively.

And to again state my point, which you have proved nicely, the extremism of the Left and the Rights and their inability to find middle ground is what is stratifying and destroying this country.  Name calling and vitriol needs to be kept on the elementary school playground and issues need to be resolved using diplomatic discussion and with all parties viewpoints given weight.  And this is something I don't think any of our current candidates are capable of.  
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Radical Maximus
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #36 - 06/05/16 at 16:24:36
 
Hey, I have an idea!
.
Lets Allow the border patrol agents to actually Do their JOBS,,
I don't need a wall. I need the president to Stop ordering a stand down. How he even did it, idk.

The absolute ignorance required to keep pretending it's about the bubs wanting cheap labor,  but what about minimum wage?
And
For gods sake SOMEONE ANSWER THIS
How much unemployment is necessary to be able to hire cheap labor?
And, if the people who MAKE UP THE COUNTRY are too broke to buy your nuts, what Good is the cheapest labor?



Living in a southern border state I may be a little more tuned into the reality here, but the undeniable fact is that the border has always been very porous, with workers coming over for agriculture work then returning home afterward.  

Many families are equally spread out on both sides of the border as many lived spread across these areas long before it was US territory.  It only became an "Illegal" problem because it was made illegal in the 20's/30's as part of the prohibition push because the "Evil Mexicans" smoked pot.

Until that point, it was market forces driven, as many Mexicans came over that were needed, the rest couldn't find work and went home.  Thus, the only ones here were legitimately needed.

Now comes the government and makes it illegal, so it is harder to get into the country to get the work they WILL FIND if they make it here.  They have to hide while here and they stay even if there is not work because it would be so hard to return.  So, at the same time we are baiting them, and trying to punish them for taking the bait.

The real solution is true immigration reform with a work permit system, and NOT a path to citizenship.  Most don't want citizenship, they want money to feed their families.  Let the farmers that want pickers apply for a permit for x number of laborers, Let the Mexican laborers apply for a permit to fill those jobs. To make the extremists happy require the Farmers to hire any Americans that apply first, require background checks for the workers, tax the wages paid just like american wages, PLUS say 5% (negotiable) to pay for the program and social cost.  Make the Farmer pay a small administrative fee as well to cover costs since they are profiting as well.

This will make it Easy for the workers to go back and forth, they wont have to hide or hang around between jobs.  The farmers will give all the jobs to "legals" so there is no lure for "illegals".  It wont cost the taxpayers anything. The Coyotes business will dry up, the labor crossings will be done legal so the border patrol's manpower can be focused on fighting the criminal elements.

The problem is that several of the recent past administrations have proposed reform, but neither side will let the other party take credit for it so the minority will join with the anti extremists to shoot it down every time.  Even bipartisan bills get roasted in all the disfunctionality.

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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #37 - 06/05/16 at 19:39:43
 
Quote:
Living in a southern border state I may be a little more tuned into the reality here, but the undeniable fact is that the border has always been very porous, with workers coming over for agriculture work then returning home afterward.  


That may be the case where you hail from, and if the only thing that was going on was some Mexicans crossing back and forth to pick crops, there wouldn't really be an immigration problem. In my particular neck of the woods, while there are a small number of illegal agricultural workers, the vast majority of illegals are neither Mexican nor looking for farm work; in fact most of them aren't looking for any kind of work at all, they are here for NY State's very generous welfare programs. And they don't plan on leaving either.

The immigration problem, legal and illegal is a he*l of a lot more complicated than just some Mexicans sneaking across the border to pick fruit.

Quote:
he real solution is true immigration reform with a work permit system, and NOT a path to citizenship.


You're right about that. Unfortunately it will never happen. This mess is not going to get fixed, not ever. The lunatics have been running the asylum for too long. Whichever of the two loons the equally looney voters pick for the next POTUS isn't going to be able to do anything about it either, even if either of them wanted too, which I'm pretty sure they don't.
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #38 - 06/05/16 at 20:37:29
 
Serowbot wrote on 06/05/16 at 07:26:53:
Look,.. there will always be several million unemployed... Many of these are in transition, re-educating, seasonal, injured, family health or crisis, or just taking a break...
Some, are having trouble finding suitable employment... and some don't want employment right now.
... but most American citizens aren't willing to take a minimum wage job...
Maybe some kids working after school, or over the summer... and then the truly desperate...

So,.. it's not any certain number of unemployed,...
At this minimum wage level, it is the number of absolutely desperate...

That said,...  I think you already knew that,.. but you repeat a rhetorical question enough... I'm gonna' give you the answer you already know...
... just to stop the wailing...

Can we move on now?... Huh


No.
We can't.
The Left have claimed that the Reason why the border was not secure was because the bubs
Wanted Cheap Labor.

Deny that.

Then we move on.
To the Next Fact.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #39 - 06/05/16 at 22:29:45
 
I don't know if they're Rep's or Lib's,... but, many farmers want immigrant workers,... many restaurants too... many small businesses...
... not to mention, Trump has been had up for hiring illegals...
You care to venture a guess at their political affiliation?... Huh
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #40 - 06/06/16 at 03:24:49
 
Quote:
That may be the case where you hail from, and if the only thing that was going on was some Mexicans crossing back and forth to pick crops, there wouldn't really be an immigration problem. In my particular neck of the woods, while there are a small number of illegal agricultural workers, the vast majority of illegals are neither Mexican nor looking for farm work; in fact most of them aren't looking for any kind of work at all, they are here for NY State's very generous welfare programs. And they don't plan on leaving either.
The immigration problem, legal and illegal is a he*l of a lot more complicated than just some Mexicans sneaking across the border to pick fruit..  




Well, that doesn't sound like an immigration problem at all, that is a welfare reform problem, and only at your state level, not a national one.  

Here, the first thing you get asked for to get almost any benefit is your SS#.  That is Federal Law in all 50 States.  There are a few child nutritional programs they can get but that is about all. The "Mexican's" you see in the welfare lines are US citizens (or parents of citizens), most likely due to language barriers and such keeping them in the minimum wage bracket.

Don't take my word for it, these claims were fact checked a long time ago

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/20/ten-illegal-alien...


Quote:
The immigration problem, legal and illegal is a he*l of a lot more complicated than just some Mexicans sneaking across the border to pick fruit.



True, the others are building houses, mowing lawns, working in restaurants.  Where I live in central Texas it is about 49% Hispanic, 48% white and 3% other.  Some of the Hispanics are white, some of the whites are Hispanic.  A lot of families still speak Spanish at home.  And we are hours of driving from the border... and this border is over 2000 miles long.  So how do we selectively "pick out" all the illegals without compromising the rights of everyone else?  

And to add to that, what everyone calls "Mexicans" are mostly really descendants of the various local Indian tribes, they were here long before we were.  So how can we look back on Custer and say tsk tsk, yet continue to try and marginalize another population?

The solution is not to draw a line and enforce it with a small army,  I think it requires some higher thought on how to live and work together.  What the rest of the country calls "Those Mexicans" we call neighbors.


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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #41 - 06/06/16 at 04:37:34
 
Radicalmuslim , welcome aboard. Well thought out and based in knowledge.. correct, and that is cool. However, my point about how the border patrol agents are not allowed to do their jobs is on the money.


border patrol agent we complete the smuggling process


Run that through the search engine..

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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #42 - 06/06/16 at 05:15:07
 
Quote:
Well, that doesn't sound like an immigration problem at all, that is a welfare reform problem, and only at your state level, not a national one.


Of course it's a national problem and an immigration problem. New York's, and some other states also, welfare problems notwithstanding, the fact that these folks are in the country in the first place is due to a broken immigration system which is the responsibility of the federal  government. New York hasn't got a border patrol. Once the people are in the country they can go where ever they please.  Point of fact, the national government is actively engaged in moving them about.The problem begins at the border. You said so yourself.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I'm glad you are happy with the situation in your neighborhood. I'm not too cool with what's going on in mine.
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #43 - 06/06/16 at 06:26:18
 
Based on your writing skill Rad; I would assume you would pay a bit more attention to detail.

A transgender is not automatically a pervert

I never said so and while I believe by definition, transgenders are mentally ill, I wouldn't automatically classify them as perverts, but I wouldn't rule it out either. I'm more concerned with actual PERVERTS taking advantage of PC companies like Target and finding their way into dressing rooms. And if you don't think that hasn't happened and will happen to greater degrees, you're a fool.

And good God yes we have cradle to grave entitlements in the US, there's a hodgepodge of dozens of state and federal programs. You can literally be born healthy, grow up and die while getting federal assistance every step of the way.

I'm an unapologetic supporter of conservative ideologies because on the whole, I feel it is far superior morally & economically than the soft socialism of the left. Have conservative leaders been flawed and pushed ideas based on their own selfish goals or misunderstanding? Sure, no argument here.

You lean to the 'reasonable progressive stance' which is just another clever way of saying you think you examine every issue and make decisions based on the individual merits of each.  So do I, in most cases, (but not all)  that decisions lines up with the conservative ideology and I suspect in yours in lines up with the liberal ideology. Have the ball$ to call a spade a spade.

If the Left were genuine in their desire to compromise, I'd be all for it, but they are not. I don't know where you get the ridicules notion the right never compromises (oh, I think it's your liberal ideology deciding for you), but the right always gives in during the legislative process. On those rare occasions when the right actually takes a stand and passes something or someone is appointed, the left (defeated at the polls) , turn to the judicial system, dominated by leftward thinking, to win in the end. Abortion laws would be the most obviously but lets toss in gun control, immigration laws and on and on.

Look, I'm glad you chimed in and hope you stick around. Our resident long hair, maggot infested, FM listening, smelly, commie rat liberal, crybaby Sew needs help on the left side of this rope.  
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Re: I hate to say this.........BUT.
Reply #44 - 06/06/16 at 07:39:32
 
WebsterMark wrote on 06/06/16 at 06:26:18:
Look, I'm glad you chimed in and hope you stick around. Our resident long hair, maggot infested, FM listening, smelly, commie rat liberal, crybaby Sew needs help on the left side of this rope.  


Yer' watchin' way too much Trump, Web... Roll Eyes

... the maggots are just a seasonal thing.... Huh
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