SuzukiSavage.com - Muslims today in their Old Testament?

WebsterMark

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Muslims today in their Old Testament?
12/15/15 at 15:11:50

The question about the Koran in my mind is this:

The Old Testament in the Bible records God demanded his followers kill their enemies in extremely violent ways. Ways that ISIS hasn't thought of.

However, as the Jewish people 'settle in' from a Biblical point of view, the message shifts. The New Testament and the message of Jesus do away with the concept of a Kingdom on Earth and shift to the Kingdom of God, which is not based on earthly land, material goods etc... The Bible ends with instructions to love your neighbor, those who live by the sword die by the sword, turn the other cheek, when a thief ask you for your coat give him your shirt too.

In other words, the violence of the Old Testament was necessary to establish a nation and now that it's established, peace should reign going forward and the Gospel is to be preached, but violence is not demanded to those who reject. In the place of violence is prayer and love.

Now, I've not studied the Koran. Maybe someone on here has. My question is simply this: Does the Koran indicate modern day Muslims are in the middle of their version of the Bible's Old Testament? Meaning the violence will have a 'closing date'? Or does the Koran indicate there is no close to violence until all are converted or dead?

Any thoughts on that?

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pg

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Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament?
Reply #1 - 12/15/15 at 15:53:45

Any thoughts on that?

Let me say I am no expert on Islam. From the little I have read I can ascertain the following. The Koran was written between 630 - 650 not long after Mohammad's death. The Bible, more so the New Testament provides guidance which is theoretical in nature. The Koran is literal for the most part and it provides definitive guidelines. If their is any confusion or conflict what the message is, the latter verse sets the precedent. I did not see anything which would lead me to believe there is a closing date so to speak.

Best regards,

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raydawg

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Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament?
Reply #2 - 12/15/15 at 17:08:59

Web, I get your question, and I see how, and what you infer to, but, it doesn't fit.
The only commonality I see is they are both beliefs/religions.

Now Christian zealots still deceive themselves, as do Muslims, as do conservatives, as do liberals, acting out in what I see as detrimental behavior to a healthy society.

It really isn't any different motivation than what it was for you to pose such a question, at its root.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament?
Reply #3 - 12/16/15 at 06:32:08

wow Ray; you're a million miles off base on this one.

My question is an honest one. I don't know the Koran, but I know the Bible. If a religious text is the framework for behavior, then what does that text say about violence in support of it's goals.

Taken as a whole, the Bible for Christians ultimately ends up laying out a case against violence.

Taken as a whole, does the Koran lay out a case for violence or not?

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28387 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #4 - 12/16/15 at 06:50:28 How do you work the Torah into this logic?...
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12854 Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #5 - 12/16/15 at 07:30:13 Go ahead and work it in. Does the Torah call for violence in an open ended fashion?
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HovisPresley Serious Thumper Offline Good Vibrations! Posts: 991 Midlands, UK Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #6 - 12/16/15 at 07:48:21 Yes, the Torah does call for violence ( and peace).
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pg Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 5273 In Transit	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #7 - 12/16/15 at 08:13:38 Does the Torah call for violence in an open ended fashion? How about the "Protocols"? Best regards,
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12854 Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #8 - 12/16/15 at 09:22:54 pg wrote on 12/16/15 at 08:13:38: Does the Torah call for violence in an open ended fashion? How about the "Protocols"? Best regards, Not familiar with the "Protocols". What is it?
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28387 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #9 - 12/16/15 at 10:32:59 Quote: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion is an antisemitic fabricated text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination.
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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #10 - 12/16/15 at 10:55:24 Serowbot wrote on 12/16/15 at 10:32:59: Quote: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion is an antisemitic fabricated text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination. Will they still clean chimneys if they succeed?
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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #11 - 12/16/15 at 11:09:47 Why are you guys still reading books written thousands of years ago. We have the internet now. It's okay to expand your minds. To choose your own belief of right and wrong rather than be indoctrinated or conscripted. --Steve
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raydawg

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Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament?
Reply #12 - 12/16/15 at 12:42:32

Paraquat wrote on 12/16/15 at 11:09:47:

Why are you guys still reading books written thousands of years ago.

We have the internet now. It's okay to expand your minds. To choose your own belief of right and wrong rather than be indoctrinated or conscripted.

--Steve

And the info on the Internet is new and novel or was just C & P'd from a book Cheesy

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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #13 - 12/16/15 at 13:08:39 Well, people wear clothing of mixed fibers and eat more than fish on Friday now. You don't have to follow rigid constructs from days gone by. It's okay to evolve. --Steve
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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Muslims today in their Old Testament? Reply #14 - 12/16/15 at 13:34:53 Paraquat wrote on 12/16/15 at 13:08:39: Well, people wear clothing of mixed fibers and eat more than fish on Friday now. You don't have to follow rigid constructs from days gone by. It's okay to evolve. Yeah...... My knuckles would dig that --Steve
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