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Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions (Read 1071 times)
Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #30 - 04/29/15 at 12:04:41
 
Iceman4193 wrote on 04/29/15 at 11:37:20:
I am planning on adding some accessories and weight so I want enough power to get up to and cruise highway speeds without stressing the motor to much. I live 200 miles from Daytona, I would like to ride the 95 to bike week and stuff like that and do it without hitting 4k rpm lol


Cruise RPM is determined by gearing, not horsepower. Of course, if you have additional horsepower you can run taller gearing. I'm quite sure you can hit 70-75 mph with taller gearing with stock engine components.
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #31 - 04/29/15 at 13:24:52
 
If I understand correctly, to get peak mpg, set up your gearing to operate at peak torque at the desired speed.
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Art Webb
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #32 - 04/29/15 at 22:12:27
 
Kawasaki front pulley, maybe stage 1 cam, Dyna Muff, rejet carb, should be fine, mine'll run 75 all day long stock, but she is spinning along pretty busily
the Kawa pulley will drop the RPM, the mods will give enough power to support that
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #33 - 04/30/15 at 03:21:47
 
Looking at that DYNO sheet....no wonder I love this bike.  The maximum torque value is almost constant between 3,000 and 5,000 rpm.  This makes for a nice comfortable ride on the back roads without making lots of gear changes along the way.

The engine will never make a lot of HP as the rpm is limited by the long stroke.  Engine improvements should be made to increase the torque values - which will allow the engine to pull harder and pull some taller gearing.  My bike has a Wiseco 95mm, Stage 1 cam, Mikuni carb and the double Kawasaki pulley conversion and an 18" rear wheel.  It is a Cafe' conversion and does not have a windshield or saddlebags, and it can pull 5th gear easily with the taller gearing.  I do not shift into 5th gear at speeds less than 60mph, and at 70 mph the engine is turning 3,925 rpm according to the chart Serowbot prepared.  It will pull 5th gear to a speed somewhere around 85mph before the air resistance wins the battle.  For higher speeds I need to shift into 4th gear.

Doing engine modifications with the stock gearing will allow you to accelerate faster, the Wiseco will make your engine more efficient and can increase your fuel mileage a bit (at the expense of using premium fuel), cam changes most likely will reduce your mileage a bit.  If you have a windshield, saddlebags or are a "plus size" rider.....try the front Kawasaki pulley change first.  I am not sure how well the double Kawasaki pulley conversion would work with a windshield as you are pushing a lot of wind out of the way.....although the difference may not be all that much as you would be pushing the wind out of the way with your body anyhow.

Should you tear a good running stock motor down to make these improvements.......that is a hard decision to make.  Gearing and engine changes can make 70 mph much nicer - but it is a lot of work and is pretty expensive.  In some instances you may be paying as much for the engine upgrades as you paid for the bike.    

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Iceman4193
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #34 - 06/28/15 at 12:42:50
 
Dave wrote on 04/30/15 at 03:21:47:
Looking at that DYNO sheet....no wonder I love this bike.  The maximum torque value is almost constant between 3,000 and 5,000 rpm.  This makes for a nice comfortable ride on the back roads without making lots of gear changes along the way.

The engine will never make a lot of HP as the rpm is limited by the long stroke.  Engine improvements should be made to increase the torque values - which will allow the engine to pull harder and pull some taller gearing.  My bike has a Wiseco 95mm, Stage 1 cam, Mikuni carb and the double Kawasaki pulley conversion and an 18" rear wheel.  It is a Cafe' conversion and does not have a windshield or saddlebags, and it can pull 5th gear easily with the taller gearing.  I do not shift into 5th gear at speeds less than 60mph, and at 70 mph the engine is turning 3,925 rpm according to the chart Serowbot prepared.  It will pull 5th gear to a speed somewhere around 85mph before the air resistance wins the battle.  For higher speeds I need to shift into 4th gear.

Doing engine modifications with the stock gearing will allow you to accelerate faster, the Wiseco will make your engine more efficient and can increase your fuel mileage a bit (at the expense of using premium fuel), cam changes most likely will reduce your mileage a bit.  If you have a windshield, saddlebags or are a "plus size" rider.....try the front Kawasaki pulley change first.  I am not sure how well the double Kawasaki pulley conversion would work with a windshield as you are pushing a lot of wind out of the way.....although the difference may not be all that much as you would be pushing the wind out of the way with your body anyhow.

Should you tear a good running stock motor down to make these improvements.......that is a hard decision to make.  Gearing and engine changes can make 70 mph much nicer - but it is a lot of work and is pretty expensive.  In some instances you may be paying as much for the engine upgrades as you paid for the bike.    



I think I would like to do a build similar to yours Dave. Any chance you might be able to point me in the right direction for where you got your parts?

Overall I'm thinking:
95mm Wiseco
34mm VM slide Mikuni
Stage 1 or 3 cam (Still trying to decide on that)
1.5" Header
Not sure about the muffler I would like to get
Kawa pulley (front, back, or both?)
New clutch  (Probably just gonna stick with the stock)
New Cam Chain.

Not sure what kinda price I'm looking at so if you guys know of places with good prices I'm all ears.
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #35 - 06/28/15 at 13:07:45
 
I got some of my parts from Lancer, some on eBay, and some by sending my cam directly to Webcam.

The stock clutch appear to be adequate...provided that you have not polluted it with oil that has any friction modifiers and wait until the engine and oil is fully warmed up before you do any full throttle acceleration.

With the work you are planning....you need a little bit of work on the exhaust port to smooth the flow and eliminate a portion of the restricting doughnut.

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Iceman4193
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #36 - 06/29/15 at 17:07:47
 
Alright, Ill PM Lancer for some prices.
Just to get a ball park, how much did your engine mods run you?
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #37 - 06/29/15 at 17:58:33
 
I am scared to add it all up.  One of the scariest things is that I spent close to $ 200 just on gaskets, oil seals and bearings.

I have the records at the office and can get a ball park - but I suspect I am well on my way to $ 1,500!  I did get some of that back as I sold the low mileage piston and cylinder on eBay.
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Iceman4193
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #38 - 06/30/15 at 19:58:38
 
Gasket sets for this bike are 200?!
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #39 - 07/01/15 at 03:00:36
 
Iceman4193 wrote on 06/30/15 at 19:58:38:
Gasket sets for this bike are 200?!


No....closer to $ 100.  But I needed new crank and balancing shaft bearings.  Then when you add new seals for the pulley, right crank, shifter, valves.....and all those little sealing washers for the cylinder head cover and right engine cover......and you need to buy a new Head Plug so that doesn't leak (new Verslagen one)......and then you need to buy a new tube of Suzuki Bond....and it all adds up.


UPDATE:  I was pretty close with my $ 1,500 guess.  I just looked at my invoices and the right crank bearing was $ 75.41 alone and I have close to $100 for the crank bearings!  The total is about $ 1,400 without the muffler change.  Webcam recommends hardwelding the rockers so I did it.....from what I understand the stock rockers work fine with the Webcam.

BEARINGS, SEALS, GASKETS, LOCK WASHER FOR PULLEY   $ 326.32
CAM SENT DIRECTLY TO WEB CAM,                                     $ 155.00
HARDWELD ROCKERS (PROBABLY NOT REQUIRED)             $ 190.00
WISECO 95MM PISTON                                                       $ 149.95
BORE AND SILICONE CARBIDE COATING ON CYLINDER       $ 165.00
MIKUNI CARB KIT                                                                 $ 389.00
UNI FOAM AIR FILTER                                                           $  18.99

                               
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Iceman4193
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #40 - 07/01/15 at 18:15:24
 
Oh wow. Looking back now do you think you could do the same quality job for less or is that pretty much what it will cost?
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« Last Edit: 07/02/15 at 05:04:19 by Dave »  
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #41 - 07/01/15 at 18:32:45
 
Why so much for the Mikuni carb?

Also, can you explain "hard weld rockers"?
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« Last Edit: 07/02/15 at 05:03:56 by Dave »  
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #42 - 07/01/15 at 18:44:05
 
The Mikuni Carb is a full kit from Lancer.  It has the rubber adapter for the cylinder, the correct "initial" jetting and a selection of pilot and main jets so you can dial it in, a jetting manual from Sudco, and the correct throttle cable for the Savage.  You have to be careful just buying the Mikuni as it may be jetted for a 2 stroke....and you may have to change the slide for the proper cut away and the needle jet and jet needle may not be correct.  Those are expensive pieces to buy seperate.

Hardwelding the rockers is done be Webcam and it makes a wearing surface that is compatible with their welded cams.  I found out later that the hardwelded rockers most likely is not necessary as the stock rockers hold up well with the Webcam.

I needed crank bearings.....so you wouldn't likely need to spend that $ 100 on your engine, and you can save $ 190 if you don't get your rockers hardwelded (but may lose the warranty from Webcam).  And you can use the stock carb.....I ran my engine for a year on the stock carb, filter and air box - and it ran well when property jetted (#150 main, 50 pilot, 2 washers on the needle).

I would not have anyone else do the cylinder than Boretech.....and I would spend the extra money and get the silicone carbide treatment.  This is just money well spent and there is no reason to be cheap about getting your cylinder bored properly.

And you don't need to do all of this to get a better running engine.  The Stage 1 or Stage 3 cams do a good job alone.  The Wiseco would be the next thing to change (and some cylinder port work while the head is off).....and that would make an excellent running engine.  
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #43 - 07/02/15 at 04:53:21
 
Thank you for the info. Bought my wife a 2007 to learn on last week and I am already planning on her either wanting more out of the bike or switching to something bigger when she gets comfortable. If she switches, I plan on turning it into a project bike.  
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Dave
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Opinions
Reply #44 - 07/02/15 at 05:21:57
 
It just depends on what kind or riding you need to do.  The stock Savage is a great commuter bike as long as you don't do long interstate rides, and it has plenty of power to break most speed limits on roads that have intersections instead of "ramps".  It is also a great play bike on the twisty back roads where the torque really helps avoid the need to do a lot of shifting and braking.

The used bikes are generally cheap enough that you can justify spending a bit of money on power improvements....provided you can live with a bike that is quicker - but not really fast.  You can buy a used and nearly pristine Kawasaki EX500 for $ 2,500 - $ 3,000 that will leave the Savage far behind when it comes to speed....but a vintage sport bike is not what everyone is comfortable riding.
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