WHAAAT!?  I dont want Lurch with the kids,,

You got to see this Russian FSB training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rI01qKAqYts

pg wrote on 03/17/14 at 11:18:50:

funny video for very young children. shooters probably toy guns-otherwise he should lie with traumatic shock and injury to the sternum( provided that he is a bullet-proof vest) because the force of the blow from a bullet equivalent to blow 15kg sledgehammer with strong momentum.
and teaching methodology is not characteristic of Russian FSB.
this not a russian FSB.it's a bad clowns

Quote:


You are correct.  I always wondered how Russia got a little piece of Poland on the Baltic Sea even after "The Wall Came Down."  

Is that correct that Germany blamed the invasion of Poland in WW2 because of an event that happened in Danzig against ethic Germans?  

I studied the Yugoslav Wars and that was extremely complicated.  That is for another thread though.  

pg wrote on 03/18/14 at 03:58:31:


Sorry, PGAMBR, you are wrong.

Koeningsberg was NOT a little piece of Poland, it was a little piece of GERMANY.

Go back to a post of mine from about a week ago; I explained that there is a large portion of the State of Michigan which belongs, geographically speaking, to Wisconsin.
Hence, all those living there "migrated through Wisconsin". Let's call them "Michigan Wisconsinians"...

...should it ever happen that income tax laws and healthcare in Wisconsin are definitely preferable to those in Michigan, wouldn't YOU like to "vote and improve the situation"?

Why should those living in the Kaliningrad enclave, who are all (but a minority) ethnic germans, want to continue living as russians?

Why should the Crimea, which was home of the Imperial Fleet of the Black Sea since the times of the Czars,
hence artificially russian (and not tatar, nor ukrainian) because of mass immigration of the families of the navy crews...
...why should it be labeled "ukrainian"?

I am not throwing gasoline to the fire, nor am I advocating anything.

I am analyzing both sides of the issue.

It is far too easy to stay on the Ukrainian side, without looking at history.

No need to be sorry, WAMBR, no problem.

Unfortunately our American friends are not accustomed to national borders shifting at the end of every war - and that often meant people migrating because they were driven out, too.

We in Europe have a long understanding about this, but you have to experience it "on your family" (not necessarily on yourself, but tales by the grandparents is often enough) in order to understand.

I also see modern-day Dnepropetrovskwa called Ekaterinoslav ?
... and Yosovka is now called Donetsk ?

What about Elizabetoslav ? Is it now "Kirovograd" or "Nonoukrainka" ?

To all the US based riders and readers... there is a sad tradition of force emigration of the "old dwellers" of a city, mass immigration of "new dwellers" and changing the city name in order to delete any old sense of national identity.

See the Oder-Neisse line when the Allies decided to move Russian, Polish and German borders alla few hundred miles west in 1946.



The "Curzon Line" gave East Poland to the Soviet Union (why ? THEY had attacked Poland in the first place!) and gave all of East Prussia to the USSR as well.
Also, the Polish-German border was moved west and gave all of the shaded area to Poland.

I leave you to imagine the force emigration, persecutions and mass murders which ensued.

If the prioce of peace is a Russian Crimea... hey! That's exactly what it was until 1917 !!!

Or... should we give Australia back to the Aborigenes and South Africa back to the Zulus... ?

Pine wrote on 03/18/14 at 11:48:09:


Who, me ? Naaah... just wanted to avoid Webstermark's comments on my alleged "being antiamerican"  

Quote:


Next 4th July you will celebrate 238 years of USA.
Next Thanksgiving you will celebrate 392 years since the Pilgrim Fathers' first Thanksgiving (they landed in 1621, so it must have been celebrated in 1622)
Next 21 April Rome will celebrate its (official) 2767 birthday, and it isn't even the oldest city in Italy.
The Etruscans were there already, as were other peoples.
Far too many times "industrial / economic power" is mistaken for "heritage / experience".

Quote:


Ukrainians have little love lost for Russians, a bit like the English and the Scots - or Savage riders and HOGs  

yes, the Ukraine was (IS) not as well off as Russia, but that is not entirely the Ukraine's fault.
It was a specific industrial strategy of the USSR to keep inportant heavy industry separated in many "specialized" plants, so that in order to build... a tank...
one factory would build engines, one would build the turret, one the chassis, one the guns... and one to assemble it all into a working tank.
They were all kept thousands of miles apart.
That way, nobody had the capacity to say "we wil declare independence, and the tanks we build will vouch for us".

Furthermore, one of the diplomatic conditions discussed and approved in Moscow when the Ukraine split from the USSR quite peacefully
was that the 5th Russian Fleet of the Black Sea would still have the Crimea as its home base, with all Soviet (=Russian) privileges acknowledged to Navy crews and their families.

Imagine, it was like UK and US Ambassadors at the Peace talks in 1783 saying "OK, you Rebels, YOU get the 13 Colonies,
BUT His Majesty's Royal Navy gets to keep Norfolk Harbor and all the crew and their families keep the homes and English privileges".

WAMBR's map also shed a LOT of light on past European history. Check this out.



http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/

My workplace's new internet filters do not allow me to see streaming media, so I pasted the above link both as "media" and "URL".
I can't see it from here, but I do hope it proves interesting.
By the way... it's "border", not "boarder"; a "boarder" is one who rents a room for "room and board", generally breakfast and supper.

My parting shot: Given European history from 1750 (including the French&Indian War) if the 13 Colonies had been, say, not across an entire ocean,
but only 2 or 3 days' sailing away from mainland Europe...
or in an otherwise uninhabited Scandinavia...
...do you really believe no other European nation would have tried taking a shot at you?
Do you really believe the War of 1812 would have ended with a draw between UK and US ?
Do you really believe nobody would have attempted to seize the opportunity in 1865, when both USA and CSA were at their last stand ?

Again, nothing against you, just food for thought.

Poland and Russia, Germany and Poland, Austria and Hungary and Serbia, Romania and Turkey, France and Germany, France and England, England and Scotland, England and Spain, France and Spain...
...they were all at each other's throats, literally, ever since the end of the Crusades...
...not to mention that Italy was so plumb rich with commerce with the Middle and Far East that they were ALL taking turns sending their armies south to loot and plunder...

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup

Video

Last night the country's embattled president and the opposition leaders demanding his resignation called for a truce and negotiations to try to resolve Ukraine's political crisis. But hours later, armed protesters attempted to retake Independence Square sparking another day of deadly violence.

At least 50 people have died since Tuesday in the bloodiest period of Ukraine's 22-year post-Soviet history. While President Obama has vowed to "continue to engage all sides" a recently leaked audio recording between two top U.S. officials reveal the Obama administration has been secretly plotting with the opposition.

Posted February 20, 2014

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37701.htm

The tape is in the link.


--Steve