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boosting the thumper (Read 5206 times)
batman
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #165 - 12/27/17 at 12:30:24
 
Well I think we might be talking apples to oranges here, your 7.3 motor is water cooled,big difference! our air cooled motors are cooled by air passing the outside and by the oil moving through the motor . the combustion temp of gasoline runs between 3000 and 5000 degrees , the higher the compression ratio ,the more efficient the fuel burns and the hotter the combustion temp. Using a blower with 5% boost jams about 34% more fuel into the cylinder than normal ,this in itself raises the combustion ratio and therefore the temp of the head sees.By lowering the combustion ratio to begin with you might keep combustion temps at a level that the motor can handle ,while still retaining most of the additional power.Cars didn't see turbos until unleaded gas and combustion ratios were dropped to around 7.5:1 , our bikes start at 8.5 : 1 and I would GUESS that with the boost would run at least 11:1, lowering the ratio to 7.5 :1 would lower this to around 10;1 and we already know that with a larger piston and stage 3 cam we can run about 10.5;1  this may be enough to drop combustion temp to a level that could be sustained at steady highway speeds .The easiest way I can think of to do this is use a thicker base gasket on the cylinder ,making the compression chamber slightly larger,if you have enough cam chain stretch to have used a Vercy tensioner 's second hole, you might just need to move it back to the first hole.  An oil cooler on our bike seems a waste of time to me as we have low oil pressure to begin with and splitting the flow ,or sending it through additional piping and a cooler would drop it even more, and our electrical system might not be up to driving a fan for it to make it useful at idle.I admire SavageBob for his efforts, but I don't envy  his problems.I wish him good luck and hope that we all can learn from his project.
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« Last Edit: 12/27/17 at 14:10:25 by batman »  

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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #166 - 12/27/17 at 19:20:42
 
yeah I think my problems are being overstated a bit. And there are a lot of 'what if's, probably's, maybes and at-a-guess' figures and opinions being thrown around.

When I started people said it probably couldn't be done but it looked fairly straight forward to me. I'm not even a mechanic, I'm a graphic designer - I draw pictures on computers for a living ha ha.  

I don't know what that RNO fella is up to, a show bike I guess. All I know is my bike goes pretty hard, I couldn't say if it's faster than a big-piston job as I haven't ever seen one. But it goes much faster than stock and it was only even intended as a bit of fun.

I can pull WOT for as long as I have enough street in front of my around down all day and not experience any heat issues. The only time I got some pinging was when I took it on a sustained highway trip for a couple of hours on a hot day. Eventually, I admit I ended up cruising it home quite mildly as I was concerned with the heat at that point.

Yeah I could lower the CR a bit - but I feel like that might negate some of the gains. Yeah an oil cooler doesn't seem like it's the ticket either. I'm thinking maybe pulling some timing out and see how that goes.

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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #167 - 12/27/17 at 19:48:01
 
track racer wrote on 12/25/17 at 11:11:09:
Hey Savagebob. What a great thread. I can't send a PM yet so I wonder if you could summarize your set up so far. Sure will give  me a good starting point. Carb jetting, etc? Sources for parts? What style relief valve did you use and where did you plumb it into the system?  many thanks, Steve


Ok well in summary I'm running a little AISIN AMR300 supercharger off a 660cc Subaru Vivio/Pleo. If you do the mini-battery mod located down on the swing arm, there's plenty of room for it. I made up a wee shelf for the mini battery just using the left overs of the OEM battery tray.

The hardest part is the drive shaft. I took off the stator cover and had a shop machine out the little access port to accept a 50mm sealed bearing. Which I pressed into it. Then I sketched up some plans for a custom shaft which replaces the stator bolt and mounts through the bearing.

Then I made up the supercharge mount out of an old Ford alternator bracket I found. The next hardest part was offsetting the SC and getting it to line up perfectly. The first time I started it simply flung the belt across the room. It has to line up perfectly. I made up a top bracket to secure the SC to the frame. And a tensioner pulley mount etc. I made up the SC cover from an old SOHC cam belt cover I found.

I have no idea what actual boost I am running as it seems impossible to tell on a single cylinder. But I'm using a 95mm drive pulley off the crank and the factory AMR pulley on the SC. I'm guessing it might be around 10psi as it doesn't accurate the relief-valve which is set at 15psi.

Carb is a CV-40 from a Harley with aftermarket goodies on it including a twin-shot accelerator pump. I'm currently running a 42 Pilot, a 172 Main jet, and the needle is on the second notch. I have an aftermarket adjustment screw turned about 4 turns out.

I have a relief valve like this one: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/SHORROCK-C75-C142-supercharger-relief-valve-NEW-/2722...
located on the OEM supercharger manifold, right before the hose connects to the head. There was a obvious place for it to go.

I also have a custom 1.5" header and drag pipe with the exhaust ported out.



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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #168 - 12/28/17 at 03:07:27
 
What a hoot! Congrats on pulling it off.
Wondering about the crank breather? Are you throwing a lot of oil mist out the breather? With the added boost, I'd worry about more ring blowby, and then more pressure in the bottom end.
If you are throwing a lot of air/oil out the breather, try running a one way valve of some sort. I've used the flapper valve from a power brake booster on a car with good results. Most PCV valves want to run vertical, so I ran into real estate issues using one.
For my Savage, the next move is to mod an aftermarket reed valve breather from a Ducati and run it either from the oil filler cap or the speedo drive hole (not using the speedo drive).
I looked at the oil pump to see if there was an easy way to spin it faster or make it pump more, but didn't see any simple way to do that.
Gung ho!
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #169 - 12/28/17 at 16:31:08
 
savagebob wrote on 12/27/17 at 19:48:01:
track racer wrote on 12/25/17 at 11:11:09:
Hey Savagebob. What a great thread. I can't send a PM yet so I wonder if you could summarize your set up so far. Sure will give  me a good starting point. Carb jetting, etc? Sources for parts? What style relief valve did you use and where did you plumb it into the system?  many thanks, Steve


Ok well in summary I'm running a little AISIN AMR300 supercharger off a 660cc Subaru Vivio/Pleo. If you do the mini-battery mod located down on the swing arm, there's plenty of room for it. I made up a wee shelf for the mini battery just using the left overs of the OEM battery tray.

The hardest part is the drive shaft. I took off the stator cover and had a shop machine out the little access port to accept a 50mm sealed bearing. Which I pressed into it. Then I sketched up some plans for a custom shaft which replaces the stator bolt and mounts through the bearing.

Then I made up the supercharge mount out of an old Ford alternator bracket I found. The next hardest part was offsetting the SC and getting it to line up perfectly. The first time I started it simply flung the belt across the room. It has to line up perfectly. I made up a top bracket to secure the SC to the frame. And a tensioner pulley mount etc. I made up the SC cover from an old SOHC cam belt cover I found.

I have no idea what actual boost I am running as it seems impossible to tell on a single cylinder. But I'm using a 95mm drive pulley off the crank and the factory AMR pulley on the SC. I'm guessing it might be around 10psi as it doesn't accurate the relief-valve which is set at 15psi.

Carb is a CV-40 from a Harley with aftermarket goodies on it including a twin-shot accelerator pump. I'm currently running a 42 Pilot, a 172 Main jet, and the needle is on the second notch. I have an aftermarket adjustment screw turned about 4 turns out.

I have a relief valve like this one: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/SHORROCK-C75-C142-supercharger-relief-valve-NEW-/2722...
located on the OEM supercharger manifold, right before the hose connects to the head. There was a obvious place for it to go.

I also have a custom 1.5" header and drag pipe with the exhaust ported out.




Many thanks Savagebob. That will work.
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #170 - 12/29/17 at 08:35:18
 
I love this quote from post #15 "I agree that many question the point, the reliability and the hassle. However just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it's not going to be fun trying it out."
Hell yeah, forget the hand wringers and congrats on doing it!!!!!! THAT'S the point!!!   Other than the twin shot, what other sorts of goodies have you added to the CV?
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #171 - 01/15/18 at 17:54:11
 
track racer wrote on 12/29/17 at 08:35:18:
Other than the twin shot, what other sorts of goodies have you added to the CV?


Just the Boyesen Twin Shot pump, the EZ-Just mix screw, an aftermarket spring, and a trumpet.
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #172 - 01/18/18 at 04:51:41
 
Thank you. I hope you consider imitation the sincerest form of flattery. We now have the SC and carb, time to begin.  And forgive my ignorance, but an "aftermarket spring" do you mean a slide spring? And where would I get one?
The motor is going in a scratch built frame patterned after this 1934 Crocker
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #173 - 01/18/18 at 07:02:57
 
That 34 Crocker speedway...Ooooo, so nice!
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #174 - 01/18/18 at 14:22:13
 
track racer wrote on 01/18/18 at 04:51:41:
Thank you. I hope you consider imitation the sincerest form of flattery. We now have the SC and carb, time to begin.  And forgive my ignorance, but an "aftermarket spring" do you mean a slide spring? And where would I get one?
The motor is going in a scratch built frame patterned after this 1934 Crocker


Cool! Yeah man looks awesome. The hardest part is the drive pulley. That took the most work. I did consider making a few drive shafts and modified stator cover plates to supply to people on here if there was enough interest.

Oh and yeah I mean slide spring, hundreds of them on eBay for the CV40 Harley carb.
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #175 - 05/08/18 at 04:29:00
 
It is begun. Supercharged 650 in a 1934 Crocker speedway tribute. Good stuff!
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #176 - 05/08/18 at 04:38:17
 
track racer wrote on 05/08/18 at 04:29:00:
It is begun. Supercharged 650 in a 1934 Crocker speedway tribute. Good stuff!


Why don't you start your own build thread.....as it moves along we can then place it in the "Bike Builds" section.
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #177 - 05/08/18 at 11:34:46
 
Will do. Just trolling to check interest. Not enough done right now to justify a build thread that moves along smartly. We will get a bit ahead then catch up in build threads. Thanks
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #178 - 05/09/18 at 12:13:49
 
Savagebob, my compliments on a really cool ride.  You are not only a graphic designer, you are a master mechanic and engineer.  The best thing about your project is the unique nature of the bike.  You aren't gonna see one like that too often.  I am impressed with your tenacity and ingenuity.  Even sounds like you could daily drive that scooter.  Well done bruddah.
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Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #179 - 11/19/20 at 12:50:04
 
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