Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 
Send Topic Print
boosting the thumper (Read 5206 times)
savagebob
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 235

Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #150 - 06/19/17 at 19:16:04
 
ahhh ha ha I'm still around. Unfortunately life ended up really getting in the way of things for me and SavageBob. He's been tucked away under a sheet in the garage now for a couple of years.

Now I'm starting to think about him again so might have to do something.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10606
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #151 - 06/19/17 at 19:49:41
 
savagebob wrote on 06/19/17 at 19:16:04:
ahhh ha ha I'm still around. Unfortunately life ended up really getting in the way of things for me and SavageBob. He's been tucked away under a sheet in the garage now for a couple of years.

Now I'm starting to think about him again so might have to do something.


Crank up some of those dormant brain cells and start tinkering on your bike again.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jcstokes
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com is
very useful

Posts: 2119
Mauku New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #152 - 06/20/17 at 13:36:24
 
Rego and WOF before too much else, hope he's been kept on hold.
Back to top
 
 

Completely stock 2010 S40, aftermarket rev counter and back pack, Airhawk seat pad
  IP Logged
savagebob
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 235

Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #153 - 12/16/17 at 18:07:18
 
SavageBob is back in action. After a few years hiatus I've pulled the sheet off and fired it up. Decided to put the larger pulley back on and she's going real good.

I still want to come up with some kind of cooling.. it's not a problem for boosting around town. But sustained highway boosting.. I worry I will melt the piston.

Perhaps a air-scoop? I have an oil cooler but haven't put it on.. don't really want to start that debate again. But I wonder if it's worth it just for the extra oil volume.

Otherwise I'm also tempted to pull some timing out of it. Has anyone mucked around with timing on the savage? I'd love to convert it to programmable timing..

But yeah other than that she flies good. Can wheel spin the back tyre and lift the front if I launch too hard. I'm now tempted to start putting together an big piston engine with a cam etc..





Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Ruttly
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 5008
Manteca , CA
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #154 - 12/16/17 at 19:07:36
 
If your worried about heat then why did you wrap the exhaust ? All that's doing is backing up the heat to the engine. I would take a temp reading at a spot on the head near the exhaust while riding at freeway speed and then remove wrap and take another reading. About 75 to 80 percent of the engines heat is expelled out the exhaust. Guess the fab of wrapping the exhaust is cause it just looks cool ? A oil cooler is your best bet ! Cheers !
Back to top
 
 

The Topic Terminator
  IP Logged
Ruttly
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 5008
Manteca , CA
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #155 - 12/16/17 at 19:52:59
 
Very cool bike ! I've been waiting for years for Suzuki to add EFI so I could take a crack at adding a turbo , it the perfect engine with its stock low compression. Love the ammo box , I got two put aside for a rat bike project some where down the road.
Back to top
 
 

The Topic Terminator
  IP Logged
savagebob
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 235

Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #156 - 12/17/17 at 12:56:09
 
Fair call with the wrap. I put that on there long before I boosted it. The wrap is there cos yeah it looks cool. It stops you burning your leg / melting a shoe. Also, under my pipe isn't the factory header, that's a custom made pipe so it doesn't have the 'second skin' like the OEM pipe.

The wrap keeps the exhaust gases hotter so they flow quicker.. I have no idea how much soak back it gets as a result.. hmmm

I was originally going to turbo it. I even had a tiny turbo ready. But the biggest problem was an oil feed for the turbo. The Sav just doesn't have the ability to pump high pressure oil into a turbo. And doesn't have the electrical capacity to run an external high-pressure electric pump either. You would need to run a completely external oil system.

The other problem is as mentioned, the Sav doesn't have much in the way of extra cooling options unlike a water cooled bike where you could upgrade the radiator etc.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #157 - 12/17/17 at 15:29:59
 
I'd take off the exhaust wrap ,just to see what color(s) the pipe is or changes to at speed, if the pipe is glowing red hot or bluing badly ,it might be that your running more boost than it can handle ,and to much raw fuel is carrying over to burn in the exhaust pipe .The pipe turns blue when rich or lean.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #158 - 12/17/17 at 20:24:42
 
Building the motor with a larger /or higher compression piston may make your overheating problem worse .If you're still going to run the blower, I'd shorten the stroke , bring the compression down to around 7.5 from 8.5 , this might be as easy as adding a thicker gasket to the base of the cylinder. If you have enough miles on the bike the cam chain should be able to handle the added height .
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17834
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #159 - 12/18/17 at 03:50:01
 
An oil cooler may help - but I am not sure how much.  Although the cooler would help to lower the temperature of the oil, there really isn't very much flow to the head, and the small amount of "cooler" oil may not make much of a difference to the head/cylinder temperature.  I also don't like using a cooler if there isn't any kind of a thermostat in the system - so that the oil isn't being overcooled when the air temperature is low (maybe that isn't a problem where you live....but it can be in northern climates).

The big problem with increased temperatures from boost is the piston crown - it can get overly hot.  Not long ago boosted car engines started to get oil "squirters" and hollow piston crowns - oil is sprayed on the bottom of the piston and it cools the piston crown.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
savagebob
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 235

Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #160 - 12/18/17 at 12:37:30
 
Has anyone looked into ways to increase oil pressure in the system? Upgrading the pump parts?

I wouldn't worry about the oil getting too cool where I live (New Zealand) I don't ride in the winter here and our summers are hot.

I'll do some more sustained highway speed runs and see if it's a problem again. I should start by sticking a temp sensor on somewhere. See what is going on. Pulling some timing out would probably help.

One of the funny things I've realised with this project is I really have no idea how much boost I am running. I have a gauge of course. But on a single intake manifold, it's closed 3/4 of the time. Boost in the intake manifold is much higher than what is being seen inside the combustion chamber.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #161 - 12/21/17 at 09:41:01
 
No one has taken into consideration the fact that blowers and turbos demand that the compression of the motor must be low and that jamming fuel mix into the cylinder leads to more of it ending up in the oil, we only have a couple of quarts ,which means much more frequent oil changes if we expect not to due harm ,and shorten the life of the motor,( and a turbo if it doesn't have it's own supply and cooling).We have been talking about running low boost of about 5 % ,but you can obtain 4 to 7% better EV in certain RPM ranges by tuning the length of your intake ,Versy 's "monster ,my bike and others have done this at very little cost and with good effect, without the problems .The max speed of gases leaving the motor can reach mach-1 ,but the intake is designed not to exceed mach-.5 A blower/turbo may well exceed that limit ,but the motor has to breath in and out ! what can we do to enhance the exhaust ? (not enough!) How effective is a blower /turbo if we're leaving exhaust gases in the cylinder ? how much hP are we really gaining?  the RNO Badass hasn't been seen running faster than an idle to get it on stage, let's see it on a Dyno ! let's see it going down a highway! It might not produce as much as the high compression piston /cam that Dave mentioned, and it may overheat, it may be all show and no go!
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
springman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2197
Spring, Texas
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #162 - 12/22/17 at 07:42:00
 
Hey SavageBob. I'm not the mechanic in the bunch so all I have to say is "That is one cool bike!" That is really neat that you pulled it off.
Back to top
 
 

06 S40 seat mod, airhawk, HD muffler, Shinko 712 140-90-15 rear tire, Shinko 230 front tire, versy cam chain tensioner, Rotella oil, Volar brake pads, EBC clutch & springs
  IP Logged
track racer
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13
Friendship WI
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #163 - 12/25/17 at 11:11:09
 
Hey Savagebob. What a great thread. I can't send a PM yet so I wonder if you could summarize your set up so far. Sure will give  me a good starting point. Carb jetting, etc? Sources for parts? What style relief valve did you use and where did you plumb it into the system?  many thanks, Steve
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: boosting the thumper
Reply #164 - 12/27/17 at 07:23:03
 
batman wrote on 12/21/17 at 09:41:01:
No one has taken into consideration the fact that blowers and turbos demand that the compression of the motor must be low and that jamming fuel mix into the cylinder leads to more of it ending up in the oil, we only have a couple of quarts ,which means much more frequent oil changes if we expect not to due harm ,and shorten the life of the motor,( and a turbo if it doesn't have it's own supply and cooling).We have been talking about running low boost of about 5 % ,but you can obtain 4 to 7% better EV in certain RPM ranges by tuning the length of your intake ,Versy 's "monster ,my bike and others have done this at very little cost and with good effect, without the problems .The max speed of gases leaving the motor can reach mach-1 ,but the intake is designed not to exceed mach-.5 A blower/turbo may well exceed that limit ,but the motor has to breath in and out ! what can we do to enhance the exhaust ? (not enough!) How effective is a blower /turbo if we're leaving exhaust gases in the cylinder ? how much hP are we really gaining?  the RNO Badass hasn't been seen running faster than an idle to get it on stage, let's see it on a Dyno ! let's see it going down a highway! It might not produce as much as the high compression piston /cam that Dave mentioned, and it may overheat, it may be all show and no go!



This is a very interesting build that shows a lot of ingenuity and mechanical aptitude... But I have to agree Batz...

Without some avenue to keep excess heat from building up in the head I think it will be limited to very mild cruising and very short bursts of mildly spirited riding.

I do have to somewhat disagree with you about boosted engines needing lower compression to deal with the heat soak.

My 7.3 Powerstroke had a naked 11:1 compression before any boosting from the turbo OR injection cycle. With injection and boost the compression averages 19:1 and rises on demand from there. Granted a diesel will produce much less heat by its very nature... but it is obviously still a concern. The magic number to take my foot out of it in my truck is 1350*f. Any longer than about 12 seconds of sustained heat production at or above that mark usually results in liquefied valve edges that try to pattern weld themselves to the head and busted rings/melted pistons...

I still can't imagine inducing the amount of heat soak this supercharger getup has the potential to cause in an assembly so sensitive to overheating. If I were serious about making an attempt to utilize the power attainable by boosting with a freaking supercharger...

I would just build a cylinder and head from scratch using a material suitable for the pressure and heat you are likely headed to put on it...

Just saying...


Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/19/24 at 06:53:07



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › boosting the thumper


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.