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boosting the thumper (Read 5206 times)
savagebob
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boosting the thumper
06/25/13 at 22:09:19
 
Thought I'd start a thread on this topic and there doesn't seem to be a dedicated thread anywhere I could find.

My plan is to stick a small VZ21 turbo running a low-boost (5psi) with a draw-through carb (Lancers Mikuni 36mm round slide).

The turbo would be mounted under the seat straight into the head to minimize any fuel pooling issues and the atomization of the fuel should keep the intake charge fairly cool.
The carb would be mounted on the left side of the head to help eliminate any freezing issues. Turbo would be blanketed and wrapped to prevent heat issues. Exhaust dump pipe would be un-baffled straight through design out the opposite side that is usually is.

Here is a rough drawing of the setup


The issues I'm aware of so far is the pulsing effect of a single cylinder. I won't know how this will affect things until I do it. But I would think that it should be able to spin the tiny VZ21 enough.
And the problem with oil seals on the turbo. Under throttle shut off it the extreme vacuum will probably draw oil past the seals. Hopefully I can get a carbon seal for the VZ21 to prevent this.

I plan on running a remote oil system for the turbo with an electric scavenger pump moving oil through a cooler and back into the turbo. No water cooling is necessary.

I also wonder what draw the scavenger pump is going to have on the battery, especially since the remote battery mod might necessary to make room. On the other hand, if I can leave batter where is it the stock emissions breather tank thingy would be perfect place for the turbo oil.

Any thoughts on all this?
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« Last Edit: 07/25/13 at 18:32:43 by savagebob »  
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jcstokes
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #1 - 06/26/13 at 03:39:07
 
You probably know better than I, that the techies say the stock alternator is barely up to the job.
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #2 - 06/26/13 at 04:14:16
 
You can convert your headlight to an HID Projector and save a good amount of draw there, also if you need the room you can switch to a smaller frame lithium battery and mount it on the unused emissions tray.  

I'm not sure why you would want to turbo charge an LS650, but if you have the time, money and gumption I'm interested in seeing the results  Cheesy
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #3 - 06/26/13 at 04:19:50
 
Instead of a turbo charger, why not a super charger. You wouldn't have any electrical issues then.
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #4 - 06/26/13 at 04:32:27
 
I would argue for not bolting the turbo to the head. In the interest of reducing the pulsing effect you need a plenum/accumulator that is approximately 3 times the displacement of the engine. Singles are virtually unmanageable in the absence of an appropriately sized plenum. When the intake opens and demands a charge, there is not sufficient volume between the intake valve and the turbo if there's no plenum. Not only would you be starving the cylinder of an adequate charge, you would also be negating any attempt to raise the cylinder pressure as the turbo is being asked to simultaneously provide volume and pressure in a time frame that is quite unrealistic. A 2,000 cc plenum would be about right.
And I would agree that if you had an external PTO if would be simpler to go with a supercharger. I've got a number of the little 300 and 500cc Aisin superchargers that would be great for this engine. They too would require a plenum.
With regard to the power supply for running the remote oil pump, adding windings to the stator isn't brain surgery, just tedious.
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #5 - 06/26/13 at 05:27:34
 
Mechanical supercharger may be preferable and simpler, if you can figure out how to drive it.

Many moons ago (late 60's), when I was still in high school, a friend picked up an unfinished project bike-- an all tube stretched drag frame with a Benelli 250 engine in it.  The original owner had started to supercharge it with a little Judson(?) supercharger meant for MG Midgets and Austin-Healey Sprites.  He had problems and abandoned the project.

My friend and his brother did a lot of researching on supercharging and found that yes, a plenum was required.  Their problem was the engine and blower were separately mounted to the frame and each vibrated differently, making sealing of the intake tract difficult. The original plenum was short and fat like a large sardine can.

Further research revealed that the critical spec of the plenum was not intake length but volume.  They created an intake manifold that was more like a long hose and could flex.  The blower belt was driven off of a pulley on the stator side of the engine.

They got it running.  The exhaust pulse and sound was amazing.  Big fat individual booms out of the exhaust pipe.  One fun trick they would do, would be to flip the drive belt off while running, thus shutting down the blower.  The resulting change in exhaust note was amazing, going from the big, sharp booms to a docile putt-putt when going from pressure to normally aspirated.

I can't talk to driveability of their long intake tract.  Unfortunately, my fried died in an accident before he could get rest of the bike outfitted for operation.
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #6 - 06/26/13 at 13:16:16
 
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #7 - 06/26/13 at 13:39:23
 
Supercharged Suzuki LS650 Savage Engine
He used a Eaton M45 Supercharger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrfGay4FlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMX1zHzYzCs
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #8 - 06/26/13 at 13:45:35
 
It all boils down to what you want to do.

Do you want to ride your bike that is mostly reliable?

Do you want a project that keeps you in the garaga a lot?  You are looking at exploring unproven ground and it will require a lot of work and adapting and trouble shooting.  I am not sure the air cooled Savage engine is capable of shedding the extra heat that turbo charging or supercharging can create.  I know that when Porsche turbocharged the air cooled engine they added oil squirters that shot oil to the bottom of the piston for extra cooling and added a larger oil cooler in the car.

You can get about all the horsepower that the Savage frame, brakes, clutch and transmission can handle by just throwing in a Wiseco piston, a cam, carb and exhaust changes......and it hopefully remains reliable and rideable.

Just my two cents worth....
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #9 - 06/26/13 at 14:03:18
 
You covered it pretty good Dave. A project like this would spend far more time in the garage than on the road. And not to mention a short life expectancy. Huh
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paulmarshall
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #10 - 06/26/13 at 14:23:46
 
Yes I kind of agree. However the article mentions if setup right with the right size Blower it can be very fuel efficient. Also the problem with altitude and fuel mixture would be fixed.
There are turbos and blowers for racing and there are turbos and blowers for everyday running.
RNO Cycles said and I quote "During the construction of the "Lucky Bastard" all kinds of ideas arose for another radical one cylinder bike. It had to be low and stretched. But what to do with the gap that arises between the engine and the rear wheel? You guessed it, the refrigerator opened and there was an Eaton M45 supercharger"
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #11 - 06/26/13 at 14:26:49
 
I'm silly enough to give it a try. Cheesy But not until my current upgrades settle down.
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Dave
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #12 - 06/26/13 at 14:29:17
 
paulmarshall wrote on 06/26/13 at 13:39:23:
Supercharged Suzuki LS650 Savage Engine
He used a Eaton M45 Supercharger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrfGay4FlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMX1zHzYzCs


Well......there are show bikes.....and there are go bikes.
I am guessing that the RNO bike is a show bike and it does not get ridden much.
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #13 - 06/26/13 at 14:33:53
 
Dave wrote on 06/26/13 at 14:29:17:
paulmarshall wrote on 06/26/13 at 13:39:23:
Supercharged Suzuki LS650 Savage Engine
He used a Eaton M45 Supercharger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrfGay4FlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMX1zHzYzCs


Well......there are show bikes.....and there are go bikes.
I am guessing that the RNO bike is a show bike and it does not get ridden much.

What about the cars that come with turbos and blowers that are your average run abouts.
Surely they are not show cars.
I had a Honda car that had a turbo and thats not a show car.
Mitsubishi GTOs some have twin turbos and they are not show cars.
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« Last Edit: 06/26/13 at 16:41:21 by paulmarshall »  
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paulmarshall
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Re: Turbocharging the thumper
Reply #14 - 06/26/13 at 14:36:01
 
Yes i am using cars as a example instead of bikes but the principle is the same.

Here is a 50cc Supercharged pulling wheelies. Grin This is a bolt on kit. Imagine providing a bolt on kit for the Savage. They would sell like hotcakes, Especially if they were proven to last the distance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzKl4gpYK3o
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