SuzukiSavage.com - So.......

justin_o_guy2

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Re: So.......
Reply #15 - 06/11/13 at 12:01:50

srinath wrote on 06/11/13 at 11:40:25:

oldNslow wrote on 06/11/13 at 11:29:03:

srinath wrote on 06/11/13 at 10:41:44:

Regular hero alright ... sign a secrecy oath which you need for security clearance, and promptly feign outrage and publicize the BS you swore to protect ... right up there with cheating on your wife cos that other chick was hottttt.

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Srinath.

Yes, a hero. When he figured out what was really going on he went public regardless of the consequences to himself. Manning is a different case. The stuff he leaked actually put the lives of specific individuals in danger. Snowden, at least up to this point, simply blew the lid off a government program that never should have been allowed to happen in the first place.

The justification for this massive invasion of privacy is that it is somehow needed to protect us from terrorists. That's a load of crap. It's real purpose is to provide the means for whomever happens to be in power to target their political enemies.
This kind of ties in with the other thread on here about how much you can trust the government. As far as I'm concerned, you can't trust them enough to allow programs like this to exist and expect that they won't be abused.

Snowden violated his oath huh. What about the oath that everyone of those clowns in washington took to uphold the constitution. And then voted for this Sh*t.

That's the whole point OldNslow. You cant break the rules no matter what your particular bias is. The politicians are making a case for bending and shaving and what not to the constitution without actually breaking it. And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act.

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Srinath.

And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act.

There ARE words on paper that some criminals enforce as IF theyre "Law",, however, they are NOT law. They are null & void at the moment theyre signed Into law. Not when theyre so labelled in a court, but when theyre signed. They are of NO meaning or strength.

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srinath

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Re: So.......
Reply #16 - 06/11/13 at 12:10:22

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:01:50:

And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act.

There ARE words on paper that some criminals enforce as IF theyre "Law",, however, they are NOT law. They are null & void at the moment theyre signed Into law. Not when theyre so labelled in a court, but when theyre signed. They are of NO meaning or strength.

And the Bushies signed it into law ...
Go on now, Its time for you to criticize "Both sides" and say the country is going down the tubes cos Bammy is this or that.

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Re: So.......
Reply #17 - 06/11/13 at 12:15:18

srinath wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:10:22:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:01:50:

And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act.

There ARE words on paper that some criminals enforce as IF theyre "Law",, however, they are NOT law. They are null & void at the moment theyre signed Into law. Not when theyre so labelled in a court, but when theyre signed. They are of NO meaning or strength.

And the Bushies signed it into law ...
Go on now, Its time for you to criticize "Both sides" and say the country is going down the tubes cos Bammy is this or that.

Cool.
Srinath.

Did you miss this?

Is it possible for you to set aside your prejudice of this person and address the underlying issue?
Is this surveillance something you agree with, or do you just attack the messenger because it bodes ill with the current president?

Has this been something that was in operation in the past, most likely. Has its practice been justified, most definitely.

As with a seed planted....it can take months till it sprouts, maybe even years, given to some climates that don't readily support growth.
Was this seed planted after 911, or before, does it really matter?

Nevertheless, it has sprouted, or the Genie has fully left her bottle, now what?
More name calling, or blaming who made the matches, or who struck it......as Rome burns?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: So....... Reply #18 - 06/11/13 at 12:15:52 Well,, make it clear, you approve or disapprove of Bammy? TRY to decide w/o balancing Him against Bush. {Pretend he is the first president. Is he doing us right or not?
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srinath

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Re: So.......
Reply #19 - 06/11/13 at 12:25:25

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:15:52:

Well,, make it clear, you approve or disapprove of Bammy? TRY to decide w/o balancing Him against Bush. {Pretend he is the first president. Is he doing us right or not?

Bammy is Awful.

Only thing awfuller was the Id10t that preceeded him. Or the main Id10t's who aspired to replace him last year.

However he is not the first president ... he wasn't given a clean slate of laws. He already had a surveillance plan signed into law he had to enforce by continuing it, and he had a prosecution in progress against Julian Assange and Bradley Manning handed him. Bammy had 2 failed and failing wars he had to continue and wind down, and a prison festering with impossible problems to deal with with an obstructionist congress.

That's is my take - the exact counter to JOG's - when Bushies are wrong ... and they have been wrong plenty ... the Bushies are wrong.
When Bammy is wrong, I criticize "both sides" - or well if Bushies were the culprit - I blame them.

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Re: So.......
Reply #20 - 06/11/13 at 12:26:59

What I find so odd.. is that any of this is NEWS. Ummm I heard about this years ago. I don't know when it became a "secret". I don't have any exclusive inside scoop on anything.. thus I must assume this NEW story is just more media candy. How the heck can I be the only one to know this???

As I recall, the story I read was something along the lines that the NSA wanted to expand their ability to track all phone calls with the ability to read and store all emails... and THAT was the big news.. not stupid phone numbers... but email CONTENT. BTW they are either still after that or already got it.

But lets just be scary about THIS phone call business. So lets see if I got this right:

AS OF RIGHT NOW... BY LAW....
the NSA can track your phone use
if based on this phone use, you pose a threat
then the military can lock you up...no court.. no charges... you just disappear... forever. Being a citizen on US soil is no protection.

Yes I have that right... and if it does not scare you... you are tough!

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srinath

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Re: So.......
Reply #21 - 06/11/13 at 12:38:24

Pine wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:26:59:

What I find so odd.. is that any of this is NEWS. Ummm I heard about this years ago. I don't know when it became a "secret". I don't have any exclusive inside scoop on anything.. thus I must assume this NEW story is just more media candy. How the heck can I be the only one to know this???

As I recall, the story I read was something along the lines that the NSA wanted to expand their ability to track all phone calls with the ability to read and store all emails... and THAT was the big news.. not stupid phone numbers... but email CONTENT. BTW they are either still after that or already got it.

But lets just be scary about THIS phone call business. So lets see if I got this right:

AS OF RIGHT NOW... BY LAW....
the NSA can track your phone use
if based on this phone use, you pose a threat
then the military can lock you up...no court.. no charges... you just disappear... forever. Being a citizen on US soil is no protection.

Yes I have that right... and if it does not scare you... you are tough!

Yes Bush had several million people's email and digital communications under surveillance. Old news.

The court-approved program is focused on foreign communications traffic, which often flows through U.S. servers even when sent from one overseas location to another. Between 2004 and 2007, Bush administration lawyers persuaded federal FISA judges to issue surveillance orders in a fundamentally new form. Until then the government had to show probable cause that a particular “target” and “facility” were both connected to terrorism or espionage.

Now that Obama is doing it, the Faux news and related right wing media is all lathered up.

BTW the new information being sought was only the call placed to and duration - not content. Bush got everything including the information in the communications.

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oldNslow

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Re: So.......
Reply #22 - 06/11/13 at 13:12:12

Quote:

What I find so odd.. is that any of this is NEWS. Ummm I heard about this years ago. I don't know when it became a "secret". I don't have any exclusive inside scoop on anything.. thus I must assume this NEW story is just more media candy. How the heck can I be the only one to know this???

Not odd at all. You're right; it's not been a secret for a long time. But it didn't become "NEWS" until Snowden went public, pissed off the powers that be, and the mainstream media couldn't continue to ignore it. Some of us so-called "right wing nut jobs" have been complaining about the Patriot act and it's implications and everything that followed it since the day it was signed into law.

Quote:

AS OF RIGHT NOW... BY LAW....
the NSA can track your phone use
if based on this phone use, you pose a threat
then the military can lock you up...no court.. no charges... you just disappear... forever. Being a citizen on US soil is no protection.

Right. And like I said in my post above - it isn't Jihadis that are going to get swept up by this - it's whoever the party in power at any given time decides is a threat to that power. Handing a tool like this to a government - any government - is not just an invitation to tyranny it is the definition of tyranny.

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Re: So.......
Reply #23 - 06/11/13 at 14:00:46

srinath wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:25:25:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/13 at 12:15:52:

Well,, make it clear, you approve or disapprove of Bammy? TRY to decide w/o balancing Him against Bush. {Pretend he is the first president. Is he doing us right or not?

Bammy is Awful.

Only thing awfuller was the Id10t that preceeded him. Or the main Id10t's who aspired to replace him last year.

However he is not the first president ... he wasn't given a clean slate of laws. He already had a surveillance plan signed into law he had to enforce by continuing it, and he had a prosecution in progress against Julian Assange and Bradley Manning handed him. Bammy had 2 failed and failing wars he had to continue and wind down, and a prison festering with impossible problems to deal with with an obstructionist congress.

That's is my take - the exact counter to JOG's - when Bushies are wrong ... and they have been wrong plenty ... the Bushies are wrong.
When Bammy is wrong, I criticize "both sides" - or well if Bushies were the culprit - I blame them.

Cool.
Srinath.

Ripe dude.......

You expend 3 words to "Bammy" and proceed the next hundred or so blaming Bush, with a few choice observations at Mitt, and the rest defending "Bammy" cuz he was handed ca ca-do do, indeed, fair and balanced you is Grin

Ever read the story of an emperor who wore no clothes?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: So....... Reply #24 - 06/11/13 at 15:42:51 Bammy could walk away from enforcing anything he chooses,, he coulda brought our guys home, JUST like he said he would, He could look at Assange & declare him a hero & pardon him,, He isnt being dragged down Bush's trail, he is plowing it & loving it,, I cant understand why the left hates Bush,, he is Bammy in different clothes.
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oldNslow

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Re: So.......
Reply #25 - 06/11/13 at 16:23:53

And as long as we just keep arguing about who's fault it is, and pissin' and moanin' about "your guy is worser than my guy" the country is just going to keep circling the drain. It doesn't make a bit of difference who's in the WH at any particular time any more. THEY ALL think this spying on everyone is a good idea. And a huge chunk of the population doesn't have a problem with it either. Angry

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: So.......
Reply #26 - 06/11/13 at 16:30:11

& thats the point Ive been making.. Wrong is wrong, doesnt matter who is doin it,, if this guy isnt as bad as the last guy, BUT, what he is doing is wrong, he still needs called on it, Or, if the last guy was horrible BUT didnt get in trouble, then what? Does that mean we have to live with a never ending stream of criminals who never get in trouble, because "the
Last guy did bad things & HE didnt get in trouble!"??
STOP the childish crap, admit wrong is wrong ,, OR,, dont allow "Your Guy" to get in trouble
& SINK with the ship!

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Starlifter Serious Thumper Offline It only snows seven months of the year here. Posts: 3746 Eastern Michigan Gender:	Re: So....... Reply #27 - 06/11/13 at 21:35:25 Bye bye Snowden...'poof'...next day, Snowden Who?
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: So.......
Reply #28 - 06/11/13 at 21:44:54

Isnt that the TRuth? Americans have the memory & attention span of retarded mice! Ive been watching "Topic of the minute" be the norm for America for decades! All thats necessary is throw out a new topic & let every talking head on the news Talk about THAT for 2 days & everyone is gibbering about THAT now,, No matter How big of a deal Yesterdays "Big Deal" WAS!.. Thje "News" programs are the same on these topics. No matter what channel, Dem or Bub programming, the talking heads are saying the very same words!
YOu guys remember about 10 years ago, when Mike Jackson was in the news? It didnt matter What news channel you went to, YOu GOT MJ "News".. While there was a BIG meeting going on in Florida.. Not ONE news channel covered the leaders in Florida, with the 8 foot wire fence around the hotel,, they were all talking about MJ, & all using the same phrases.. Tell ME they arent controlled..

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Re: So.......
Reply #29 - 06/12/13 at 06:09:25

Isn't it a shame? Another one of those "almost by design" things... people having less of an attention span.
The world has evolved so quickly. I consider myself rather young still but I can tell youngins I lived in an age without the internet. I can remember a time before 9/11 and all the laws that were forced as a result.
People born after 2001 will never have known freedoms such as those so they don't know what they're missing.

--Steve

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