SuzukiSavage.com - Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #30 - 05/30/13 at 13:42:59

I guess trying prohibition for 13 years (1920-1933) wasn't long enough to work. http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/alcohol-prohibition-was-failure

And the war on drugs has been going on since the early 70's (about 40 years). http://www.ibtimes.com/war-drugs-total-failure-statistics-prove-it-291447

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847

And from Great Britain
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/18/great-gun-control-fallacy...

Oh wait, I forgot facts shouldn't get in the way of 'fuzzy feel good' emotional decisions.

Pine is correct - driving is a privilege while gun ownership (along with freedom of religion/speech) is guaranteed as god given right by the US Constitution.

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Pine

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #31 - 05/30/13 at 14:02:08

srinath wrote on 05/30/13 at 13:34:04:

Pine wrote on 05/30/13 at 13:04:36:

Now Sri... I have been letting all the others have their turn.. but you said something here that is VERY incorrect:
Registering a car and registering a gun are the same thing.

No its not.. not even close. Look it up. Driving a car is a privilege. You have no "rights" to driving a car. Owing a gun is RIGHT as specified in the constitution. Thus my whole post above... Registration assumes one cannot have access until the permission is given. Ie you are a criminal until to comply. This works well for privilege.

The case being made for in car breathalysers in lieu of licence being revoked is that the requirement to drive also is constitutuional - Its covered under "Pursuit of happiness". When your livelihood depends on driving, you have to commit a lot more than 1 DUI to lose it.

Registration in the case of guns obviously is to keep a trail on guns being sold and traded. As in -
You may own a gun used only for good, you register it, you sell it to trafficker and record it - then trafficker sells in NYC to armed robber. We find bullets, trace it to your gun, find the trafficker who bought from you, and toss him in jail for armed robbery. Good trafficker out of business. Repeat. Till armed robber is caught.

I dont see anything regarding permission in registering a gun, especially one you already own. Its about keeping a trail of what is sold etc etc.

Cool.
Srinath.

I am afraid you are mistaken with regards to driving a car. Its been through the courts many many times. Driving a car is a privilege... it can be taken away for any reason.. or even no reason. "pursuit of happiness" does not trump that driving is a privilege. Driving privileges are locally determined. Yes, if a local area deems that one DUI is enough to revoke the privilege.. its a done deal. Needing your car to go to work trumps nothing as well. The law is well documented and well tested in the courts. Driving is a privilege that can be revoked at any time for any reason.

I dont see anything regarding permission in registering a gun, especially one you already own.
I think I know what you are saying here, but I may not be clear on it. If you are saying that registration of owned guns occurs are at the point of sale.. then yes federally, but it depends locally. Obviously the man in the story already owned his guns, but never registered them, thus he was charged a fine as a criminal.
In the state of MS, I do not have to "proactively" register my guns. And a private sale (that does not cross state borders) does not have to be registered. Any sale by a licensed dealer, and any sale that crosses state borders must be registered. This is includes all person to person private sales crossing state lines.. which must be facilitated by licensed dealers at both ends, and thus be registered.
In the state of MS. Gun Registration does not "normally" leave the firearms dealer. They are required to keep the paper files on location for-ever. Generally, once a quarter the local FBI will come by to verify that the paperwork is accessible and is being keep in accordance to proper procedure. During these quarterly checks the registration is not checked for validity or any other checks. A "gun check" as done by the firearms dealer involves a phone call ( voice) to the local county law enforcement or FBI. The Drivers license number is given over the phone and check is done for outstanding warrants or criminal actions that would preclude new owner from taking possession. This very "low key" registration was the only way any type checks would pass by voters. In order for the FBI or any government entity to gather up all the data on the gun ownership.. every dealer would have to have their paper files gathered up physically from across the state.

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45acp

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #32 - 05/30/13 at 22:27:42

whats after guns? do knives need serial numbers and records? do bats? slingshots? big rubber dildos?
it just wont work. its a stupid idea. and you still havent told me whos going to pay for it? it would take a thousand years to run that many guns through your make believe system.
are we really supposed to let the government hold onto our guns while they are waiting to run their bs tests. the same government that wants to take them away. like i said stupid idea.

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Midnightrider

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #33 - 05/31/13 at 00:14:17

Its our country and we need to take it back. Arm the citizens, teach them how to shoot and your gangs will disappear. Imagine a carload with 4 armed citizens driving up to a drug dealer. Imagine whats going to happen. The cops wont do it, too much paperwork. All the cops want to do anymore is attack old women and innocents, where they know they wont get hurt. Protect and serve has become a joke. Concealed carry is one of the greatest laws this country has ever seen. There would be a dead kid in Washington if that man with a bucket of balls hadn't decided to break a stupid law and carry. Those of you who don't like civilians with guns would have a dead kid now. I know I'm gonna get blasted but if armed civilians were at Sandy Hook the death toll would have been lower or maybe not at all. Gun free zones are shooting ranges for crazies.

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Paraquat

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #34 - 05/31/13 at 06:15:17

[quote author=3E3F24232C39254D0 link=1369624067/15#26 date=1369938544]Paraquat wrote on 05/30/13 at 11:14:57:

We do that for a gun. It will almost in a year or 2 eliminate gun criminals. Remember I said "Gun criminals" ... it may increase knife criminals and do nothing for "gun psycho's". Gun criminals wont be able to use the gun. They will not get away if they do.

So... a bandaid solution?
Why not address the root issue?

45acp wrote on 05/30/13 at 22:27:42:

whats after guns? do knives need serial numbers and records? do bats? slingshots? big rubber dildos?

My friend hosted a killer party back in my teens. Let's just say that what I found under his sister's bed should have been registered as a lethal weapon.

--Steve

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srinath

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #35 - 05/31/13 at 06:18:59

OK OK all sorts of points - mostly all repeats.
The guns he was fined for had to have been registered. No one said anything about waiting to use them etc etc, register them is register them.
Yea yea I know second amendment. They also dont say anything about criminals in the second. So I guess criminals get all those rights too. Why dont we start @ the right to vote for criminals, as well as all the rest.
Now that we dont want criminals to have guns, the only way to prevent that is gun registration.
The whole pay for it scenario is a republican crutch. You want a gun, you pay for that part. Same as registration of a car. The second amendment says nothing about guns should be cheap, or anything else in any of the other rights that involve expenses regarding anything else. What if you lived 10 miles away from the voting station and had no car. We dont care. Same case with guns.

And dont keep parrotting australia and crime and england and crime. They have crime, not gun crime. If we eliminate guns getting into crimnial hands and registration is required as is data on rifling to do so, only people that have guns will be the ones thatfollow all the rules. Including the stupid registration rule. See what happens to violent crime then.

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Srinath.

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #36 - 05/31/13 at 06:27:07

[quote author=6352415242465247330 link=1369624067/30#34 date=1370006117]srinath wrote on 05/30/13 at 11:29:04:

Paraquat wrote on 05/30/13 at 11:14:57:

We do that for a gun. It will almost in a year or 2 eliminate gun criminals. Remember I said "Gun criminals" ... it may increase knife criminals and do nothing for "gun psycho's". Gun criminals wont be able to use the gun. They will not get away if they do.

So... a bandaid solution?
Why not address the root issue?

--Steve

Yea ignore the "pretty good" because you dont have "perfect".

No place in the world has no crime.
In places where there were no guns, like in India in the 70's, there was pick pockets, petty theft, break ins, the ocassional stabbing even and all sorts of crime.
No one got killed, but people lost plenty of $$. Maybe that is the only acheivable target. The US of 2013 is likely to be better. Plenty of legal guns in homeowners hands. Much of that will really deter criminals. Its almost a case where the only people who have guns are going to be law abiding citizens.

Obviously the NRA doesn't want that. They want to sell guns to criminals, so their cover is "criminals will never go through background checks" and they want to sell the good people guns cos their mantra is "the onlything that stops a bad guy with a gun is agood guy with a gun".
Hell no. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is the fact that the gun will promptly be traced back to him.

That of course means guns sales will plummet.
The NRA is into selling guns to both sides. Like I think Bush's family did during WW2.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000 Reply #37 - 05/31/13 at 07:19:10 No law ever written will prevent crime period! The war on drugs, prohibition, etc, they've only increased crime
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srinath

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #38 - 05/31/13 at 07:25:32

Midnightrider wrote on 05/31/13 at 07:19:10:

No law ever written will prevent crime period! The war on drugs, prohibition, etc, they've only increased crime

How would you know what it will have been without that law in place ?

Prohibition didn't work, but we implemented it very 1/2 assed, and for just a decade. Who lets in canadian trucks with prohibition in place. For gun laws to work, we need canada to go along after we get all the states on the same page. We also need to get mexico to go along, but mexico currently send us drugs, we may just be trading guns for drugs. However now what is happening is that drugs come in and guns go out. If we reverse that gun trend, we will 1/2 the drug problem. They will be making return runs empty handed.

Anyway registering guns is a first baby step. We just need an owner on file and rifling data on each one. Traceability will stop a criminal.

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Srinath.

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #39 - 05/31/13 at 11:24:06

Midnightrider wrote on 05/31/13 at 07:19:10:

No law ever written will prevent crime period!

The idea that you can prevent crime is like making pure vacuum. Not possible. How much of it can you cut down and can you reduce the severity is the question. If you turn 100 murders into 10 its a huge success, If you have converted murders into beatings you've acheived success. If you turn armed robbery into pickpockets again success. Laws can affect that. As can a lot of other things like economic opportunity and cutting down on drugs etc etc.

Midnightrider wrote on 05/31/13 at 07:19:10:

The war on drugs, prohibition, etc, they've only increased crime

The war on drugs and prohibition were intended to reduce drugs and alcohol. They were not to reduce crime. However prohibition did bring in spectacular crime and NASCAR. If that's not a reason to drive you to drink, I dunno what is.

Lots of laws however draconian they may be do work. DUI laws work very well IMHO. The hordes of people on DUI cycles (mopeds and scooters) is enough proof. If they've not stopped drinking atleast they have stopped driving something that could kill pedestrians. Now they can only maim them. The un intended consequence of the DUI laws are that the moped fools get on the road and hold up traffic - you and I going into work. But you cannot argue that keeping drunks in cars off the road is a benifit to any of us who has chosen to throw our lot in a 350 lb bicycle.

Did it eliminate Drunk driving - no, can it be implemented better yes, is is all 100% benefit to the general public - no, but overall has it kept drunks in cars down ? YES. You can still be hit by a drunk in a car, however you're less likely to be hit by a drunk in a car than say 10 years ago. That squeeze is what crime fighting is all about. Crime reduction is the name of the game.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Midnightrider

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #40 - 06/01/13 at 19:38:58

"How would you know what it will have been without that law in place ?" I'll tell you how. Conn. has a no assault weapons ban. Didn't work to well at Sandy Hook did it? Aint gonna work nowhere. You keep talking about all the crime where you live. There's laws against that but evidently they're not working either. We need to get a bunch of good ol boys and fill WD's pond up. Don't want the turtles and crawdads to go hungry. The cops shot and killed a 74 year old well respected, well liked white man going to his neighbors house because the alarm had gone off. That's about what cops are good for anymore. They want police the minority neighborhoods because they're scared. They beat up and shoot at innocent women. I'm sure they're some good ones left out there but these new generation of police officers are a danger to society.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #41 - 06/02/13 at 16:57:32

The REason the People were given for the war on drugs was to reduce drug use & crime,, but, after years & years of this war, what we have seen is a tremendous business in drugs & an increased police presence & more people in prison than anywhere else,,
REgardless of the "reason" for it, it is a failed program.,
There are news articles about banks that have been shown to be involved in laundering drug $$$,, but what banking officials are in prison?
Our stock market is open to investment by drug lords & they WILL invest in it OR they will be targeted & taken down,
The corruption is beytond the ability of most to grasp. Youve been taught all your lives that you live in some "Boy Scout of the World" country & nothing could be farther from the truth, WE,, WE, the USA, are REsponsible for the record breaking increase in poppy production in A/stan & WE, the USA, are profiting from that production, Not you & ME,, Ohh No,, not US, but just as the corrupt leaders of these tin horn tyrannies we send foreign aid to, the leaders of those countries benefit from the billions we send. OUr leaders & the corrupt globalists get some of the $$$ from these drugs. The ones we stomp on are the ones who dont want to play along. Just as the nations we invade are the ones where the leaders will not agree to borrow from the world bank & IMF.
My world view is unpleasant, but far more accurate than the mamby pamby world the masses live in,
Read the truth. Learn whats going on,,

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081

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RatdogWillie

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #42 - 06/02/13 at 17:44:11

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/02/13 at 16:57:32:

WE, the USA, are REsponsible for the record breaking increase in poppy production in A/stan & WE, the USA, are profiting from that production, Not you & ME,, Ohh No,, not US, but just as the corrupt leaders of these tin horn tyrannies we send foreign aid to, the leaders of those countries benefit from the billions we send. OUr leaders & the corrupt globalists get some of the $$$ from these drugs. The ones we stomp on are the ones who dont want to play along.

Yep, the USA is helping with Afghanistan's Opium crops. The Taliban had all but eradicated the opium growers before the US invasion. So why is cheap Afghani heroin flooding into the United States?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/dyinginafghanistan.php

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What was the best thing before sliced bread?
Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot them?
How is it possible to have a civil war?
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000
Reply #43 - 06/02/13 at 17:59:22

Why that Eeeeevillll Taliban! Crushing opium production!!! OHHH the Noes!

This is what got Pat Tillman murdered by our guys,,

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Sep 4, 2012 – Pat Tillman's father, a lawyer, while avoiding the legal term “murder” ... Medical examiners request a fratricide investigation sometime thereafter.
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Jul 27, 2007 – New Evidence Clearly Indicates Pat Tillman Was Executed Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from ...

He had given up a career in pro football to "Serve his country" because he thot he should, as an American, go & fight against those who would attack us,, Then, he found out why we were there & started sending letters home, telling friends & family what he was seeing & how mad he was & telling them that when he came home, he was gonna blow the whistle,,
They blew His whistle..

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: Gun Owner Gets Fined $1000 Reply #44 - 06/02/13 at 19:21:02 I saw John Perkins interviewed on a television show. It was a real eye opener.
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