SuzukiSavage.com - What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment

justin_o_guy2

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #60 - 01/25/13 at 10:36:18

Trippah wrote on 01/24/13 at 19:50:23:

No right is absolute, if they were we wouldn't murder the murderers (I am not against executing evil folks necessarily)....the 2nd amendment, again, insists that a well regulated militia but that seems to be lost. The thought that every fool should carry weapons into schoools or movie theatres is insane (I think). I also do not like automatic weapons, especially handguns because they are hard to use well. Our Connecticut MoM of whacko brough jr to the range so he could learn to shoot well, (is she NRA's Poster Mom)..which brings up interesting issues of weapons control. We are blessed living in a great place and can't manage to live well and satisfied.....sad really.

Look at the commerce clause, see the word Regulate?
NOW, Haul your brain Back in time.
Remember, the Framers were working to create a government that put the POwer in the hands of the People.,right?

The word REGULATE may well not have meant "Controlled in every way by a superior power" but may have more or less meant "Kept Regular:"
No State was allowed to put tariffs on others that would crimp thew ability of the people to trade.

YOu REally think they put something in that would SO completely contradict

The RIGHT of the People to Keep & Bear Arms SHALL NOT be INfringed?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Starlifter

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #61 - 01/25/13 at 17:01:20

It's a matter of interpretation JOG. The way I read it it's ABSOLUTELY clear to me that the 2nd means "A Government Controlled and Well Regulated Militia".

I can see no other interpretation of this amendment.

You obviously see something entirely different.

That's where we stand. That is how we see it.

There are thousands of other people who see it my way, and thousands of other people who see it your way.

No amount of argument or reasoning will ever sway our opinions.

That's the way it is.

Further discussion / argument on this issue is futile.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28387 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #62 - 01/25/13 at 17:12:35 Starlifter wrote on 01/25/13 at 17:01:20: No amount of argument or reasoning will ever sway our opinions. That's the way it is. Further discussion / argument on this issue is futile. That pretty much sums up the entire Tall Table... ...
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #63 - 01/26/13 at 11:06:19

If the goobs are the deciders, then there is no right of the people to keep & bear, its, at that point, a privilege. The Framers had experience with tyrannical goobs & made the Citizens the Sovereigns.

The Right of the People to Keep & bear arms shall not be infringed.

Why would they contradict that in the preamble?

Explain WHY they did that, dont just tell me they did.,

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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WebsterMark

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #64 - 01/26/13 at 12:46:42

It's a matter of interpretation JOG. The way I read it it's ABSOLUTELY clear to me that the 2nd means "A Government Controlled and Well Regulated Militia".

I can see no other interpretation of this amendment.

I would agree that two people can read the same thing written by a third person and come away with two different understandings. However, in that case, the writer is the one who gets to says what he meant by what he wrote. So, look at what not only Madison said about the 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights, but read what others said about it at the time it was written. Based on that, it seems clear the 2nd amendment at the time was specifically about citizens being armed to protect themselves from their own governement and from other forces should the government army (or militia) be overrun.

Now, if you want to re-define that, fine. I'm not opposed to a nationwide discussion on a 'new 2nd amendment', but just remember that you would need to pass a new amendment to the Constitution to superceed or possibly remove the original 2nd amendment. I don't see that happening.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #65 - 01/26/13 at 13:25:02 So, in the first sentence they said the power to control weapons lies in the hands of the government, then they said The Right of the People to keep & bear arms shall NOT be infringed? Riiiight..
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WebsterMark

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #66 - 01/27/13 at 06:47:32

Here’s another way to look at it; the Preamble starts with 'We the People'...

Who are the People? Are they government approved groups such as the militia or those in the navy or those in the Continental Congress? No, we all agree when it says People in the phrase We the People, it means all the citizens of the colonies. So why would the word people mean something different when it says the right of the people to keep and bear arms... mean something different?

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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #67 - 01/27/13 at 08:29:09 "The Right of the People to Keep & bear arms shall not be infringed" No gun law is legal as far as type and where you can carry! "Shall not be infringed"Ben Franklin said if you give up freedom for security you deserve neither.
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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #68 - 01/27/13 at 09:32:08

Midnightrider wrote on 01/27/13 at 08:29:09:

"The Right of the People to Keep & bear arms shall not be infringed" No gun law is legal as far as type and where you can carry! "Shall not be infringed"Ben Franklin said if you give up freedom for security you deserve neither.

Yes Benny fanklin was a great man ... he had 100 slaves. That's why he's on the $100 bill.

Someone said it ... dont make it correct or true, or even that we are applying it in the right sense and spirit.

For that statement in a way let me provide a corollary - You're interpreting he implied that he wanted to be armed. He may have meant his ability to order people around to say "clean my toilet" and his dedicated slave went and cleaned it ... and now franklin says ... man being free is the best, I would not want to be enslaved ... I want to be free. Those that would give up freedom to be safe and secure like a slave deserve neither.
In those days, the slave masters took care of their slaves, in a way like they did their horses or cows. Maybe he meant that.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #69 - 01/27/13 at 10:49:55 I knew you had nothing to say as soon as you went to He owned slaves. Youre not talking about the words of the 2nd now. Youve lost.
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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #70 - 01/27/13 at 11:18:32

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/27/13 at 10:49:55:

I knew you had nothing to say as soon as you went to He owned slaves.
Youre not talking about the words of the 2nd now. Youve lost.

What Franklin said isn't in the second amendment - if you give up freedom for security you deserve neither. <- That is not part of the second. I was not talking about the second amendment at all. Read my post. It was just about that statement of Franklin.

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Starlifter

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #71 - 01/27/13 at 12:25:42

I think the one thing that bothers me the most in this "guns for all" any time, any place It's my right! meme is this:

I carried a weapon on the job for 43 years. I Had to pass one of the most intensive firearms & qualification courses in the federal system to become an air-marshal. And for my entire career I had to qualify in day long sessions at the range quarterly, with additional practice and training between.

I will forever be aware of the deadly purpose and meaning and consequences of owning a firearm.

Now what we have here is a system where any paranoid stupid half-wit can go to a gun show and buy more firepower than the average combat soldier.

He or she can in most instances leave the gun show, and buy whatever he wants from some guy's trunk in the parking lot, take it home, go out to the back 40 with a couple of six-packs, blast away at a few beer cans, and declare himself "fully qualified" to sally forth into the world armed to the teeth and ready for action.

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WebsterMark

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #72 - 01/27/13 at 14:16:23

He or she can in most instances leave the gun show, and buy whatever he wants from some guy's trunk in the parking lot, take it home, go out to the back 40 with a couple of six-packs, blast away at a few beer cans, and declare himself "fully qualified" to sally forth into the world armed to the teeth and ready for action.

and yet hundreds of thousands if not millions, do this with no bad results. There are millions and millions of semi-automatic 'assault rifles' in the US today and how many are used in crimes? The percentage is shockingly small. There are about a thousands things more important to work on than another gun band that will accomplish nothing.

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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #73 - 01/27/13 at 15:43:02

WebsterMark wrote on 01/27/13 at 14:16:23:

He or she can in most instances leave the gun show, and buy whatever he wants from some guy's trunk in the parking lot, take it home, go out to the back 40 with a couple of six-packs, blast away at a few beer cans, and declare himself "fully qualified" to sally forth into the world armed to the teeth and ready for action.

and yet hundreds of thousands if not millions, do this with no bad results. There are millions and millions of semi-automatic 'assault rifles' in the US today and how many are used in crimes? The percentage is shockingly small. There are about a thousands things more important to work on than another gun band that will accomplish nothing.

Which is why we want to not let them into the wrong hands.
You want to bear arms, you need to lock it up, so your retarded son (as in the sandy hook case) doesn't get into it. That will be fought tooth and nail as infringing on rights ... so they need to be made to lock it up ... by making it cost $$$$$$ ...

Yea you can bear arms ... just as soon as you pay for em.

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #74 - 01/28/13 at 04:16:43

How about we put a $100,000 tax on every car sold, and make the tax retroactive so everyone who now owns a car will have to pay as well. If you don't pay the tax you don't drive.
This would immediately reduce the 40,000 + people killed every year in auto accidents to perhaps less than 1,000 per year. Just think, 39,000 fewer auto deaths ! Now there's a plan !!!
That would raise much more money for the fed gov't and everyone would be happy, yes ???

Let's don't forget drunk drivers. They are responsible for way more than half of all auto accidents and deaths. If caught driving under the influence they should be shot on site. That will provide incentive for people to obey the law and be good obedient citizens.

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