SuzukiSavage.com - I propose we define 'assault weapon'

Paraquat

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #195 - 01/15/13 at 16:27:05

WHAT?

Quote:

Claim: The 1994 "assault weapons ban" helped to reduce violent crime.

Fact: A recent comprehensive study by the Centers for Disease Control -- hardly a pro-gun entity -- looked at the full panoply of gun control measures -- including the "assault weapons ban" -- and concluded that none could be proven to reduce crime. Homicide statistics demonstrate that the miniscule use of so-called "assault weapons" in crime (less than 1 percent) continued to decrease after the ten-year ban expired in 2004 and their manufacturing and sales resumed.

Another study, commissioned by Congress, found "the banned weapons and magazines were never used in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders."

The report also noted that so-called "assault weapons" were "rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban."

http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/semi-auto.cfm

Quote:

BATF interpreted the amendment as a prohibition on the civilian possession of any fully-automatic firearm manufactured after May 19, 1986. The effect of the interpretation has been to "freeze" the number of privately owned fully-automatic firearms at roughly 150,000

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/1999/fully-automatic-firearms.aspx

So 150,000 guns are responsible for all these massacres?

Percent of prison
inmates carrying a
firearm during current
offense
Type of firearm State Federal

Handgun 83.2 % 86.7 %
Rifle 7.3 8.9
Shotgun 13.1 13.7

Single shot 53.9 % 49.2 %
Conventional
semiautomatic 43.2 51.8
Military-style
semiautomatic 6.8 9.3
Fully automatic 2.4 3.8

Number of inmates 190,383 12,936

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/fuo.txt

Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

Quote:

In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_10.pdf
^^^ This is a cool report in California. Fully automatic weapons constitute .6% of firearms used in crimes in 2009.

--Steve

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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #196 - 01/15/13 at 19:00:51

That's funny, fully automatic weapons constitute 100% of sandy hook, colorado theater, arizona parking lot and webster murders.

Dude there were 282 massacres in 2011 if I recall. That out of 19,000 something ... that was all the scope of the assault ban is ...
That is whacko's killing random people cos guns are too easy to get and bullets very cheap. I want them to go on a butcher knife rampage, or a baseball rampage, or a ping pong rampage. Just not a gun rampage.

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Paraquat

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #197 - 01/16/13 at 06:09:37

WHAT?

Sandy Hook;
The Bushmaster AR15 from Sandy Hook is not a fully automatic M16.
Quote:

Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-lanza-guns/index.html

Aurora:
The Colorado guy used Quote:

a semiautomatic variation of the military’s M-16 rifle

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/us/aurora-gunmans-lethal-arsenal.html?_r=0

Arizona:
Quote:

He reportedly used a 9mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting

Webster:
Quote:

After his sentence was up in 1996, he stayed out of trouble until 2010, police said Friday. That's when Spengler went to a sporting goods store with a neighbor's daughter, picked out a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle and a shotgun and had her buy the guns that the convicted felon couldn't legally possess.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/straw-buyer-guns-webster-shooting-arreste...

This is a straw purchase. When someone buys a gun for someone who cannot legally possess one. It constitutes forging a federal document.

That's all four of your examples of a "fully automatic" weapon I just shut down. I turned your 100% sure thing into 0%. Got any more?

--Steve

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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #198 - 01/16/13 at 11:44:46

Right riht, that is all the guns we ban and tax the bullets $99 a pop. The bullets will come in individual date stamped plastic baggies. The older junk without a date of manufacture, those are unkown quality and you never know what will be a dud.

Yea we ban all of em and tax all of em ...

Big guns for protection, small guns for crimnals ... and we tax small guns and all bullets ... and bullets in justified homicides are replaced without the tax penalty by cops on the scene.

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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #199 - 01/16/13 at 11:55:42

Oooo I get it, you seem to be splitting that hair between semi automatic and fully automatic ... OK good. I'd say ban em both, ban the high capacity magazines, ban the armor piercing bullets and tax each bullet 99 bucks and give that to the federal govt, put bullets in sealed baggies with a date time of manufacture stamp ... and that should deflate the used bullet market as well.
Crap without a individual baggie cant be weather proofed and may turn out to be a dud ... you better fire off those and keep a few for real self defence.

Its one more of the RMoney taxes for the poor, cuts in benifits for the poor, tax cuts for the rich VS taxes for the rich services for the poor Obama - its a wild debate here ... guess why ? more white men old here as opposed to the variation in the voting population ...
Its a closer debate here, out in the real world, it has shifted away from the guns guns guns for all cos the second amendment says so ...

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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #200 - 01/16/13 at 12:00:36 Straw purchases are illegal, and penalties for it should be very very very steep. Straight up accessory charge per murder - we could actually upgrade that to straight murder. Cool. Srinath.
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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #201 - 01/16/13 at 13:19:21

Paraquat wrote on 01/16/13 at 06:09:37:

WHAT?

Sandy Hook;
The Bushmaster AR15 from Sandy Hook is not a fully automatic M16.
Quote:

Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-lanza-guns/index.html

Aurora:
The Colorado guy used Quote:

a semiautomatic variation of the military’s M-16 rifle

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/us/aurora-gunmans-lethal-arsenal.html?_r=0

Arizona:
Quote:

He reportedly used a 9mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting

Webster:
Quote:

After his sentence was up in 1996, he stayed out of trouble until 2010, police said Friday. That's when Spengler went to a sporting goods store with a neighbor's daughter, picked out a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle and a shotgun and had her buy the guns that the convicted felon couldn't legally possess.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/straw-buyer-guns-webster-shooting-arreste...

This is a straw purchase. When someone buys a gun for someone who cannot legally possess one. It constitutes forging a federal document.

That's all four of your examples of a "fully automatic" weapon I just shut down. I turned your 100% sure thing into 0%. Got any more?

--Steve

Oooo I had to look this one up ... see these are all semi automatic toting crimes ... that is because fully automatic weapons were banned in 1986. How effective is that ban ... the whacko's have moved onto semi automatics. We need to ban them ... and tax little concealable guns and bullets to the gills. we will get results in a few years. Its free ... no federal $$$ needed for it.
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Paraquat

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #202 - 01/16/13 at 15:40:56

srinath wrote on 01/16/13 at 13:19:21:

Oooo I had to look this one up ... see these are all semi automatic toting crimes ... that is because fully automatic weapons were banned in 1986. How effective is that ban ... the whacko's have moved onto semi automatics. We need to ban them ... and tax little concealable guns and bullets to the gills. we will get results in a few years. Its free ... no federal $$$ needed for it.
Cool.
Srinath.

Yes, I chose to focus on fully automatic weapons after reading:

srinath wrote on 01/15/13 at 19:00:51:

That's funny, fully automatic weapons constitute 100% of sandy hook, colorado theater, arizona parking lot and webster murders.

As I previously posted only two murders were ever commited with legally owned fully automatic weapons since 1934.

So you're saying without fully automatic weapons people moved on to semi automatic?
Let's all ride the logic train on that one... What happens when they ban semi auto?

--Steve

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #203 - 01/17/13 at 08:52:42 It good Al Capone and friends didn't have automatic weapons,They would have killed a lot of people.
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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #204 - 01/17/13 at 09:14:52 bill67 wrote on 01/17/13 at 08:52:42: It good Al Capone and friends didn't have automatic weapons,They would have killed a lot of people. No way? Criminals break laws?! When did this start happening? --Steve
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #205 - 01/17/13 at 12:57:31 They had full auto thompson's I think dillinger used a VAR
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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #206 - 01/18/13 at 07:40:36

Paraquat wrote on 01/16/13 at 15:40:56:

So you're saying without fully automatic weapons people moved on to semi automatic?
Let's all ride the logic train on that one... What happens when they ban semi auto?

--Steve

Good you asked. You need explained ... If we banned semi auto's and they were squeezed out of the market - which may take 100 years ... but they will move on to revolvers and other non semi's.
That will turn these 27 body piles into say 6 body piles

So in a 100 years we can ban those ...

That will lead them to single shot rifles.

That in effect cant be concealed ...
It'd be easy to spot who's looking for trouble.

People will go whacko - we are trying to reduce the pile of bodies.

People will be criminals. Those cant ever be stopped, we will never get guns off the hands off the bad people. A $100 bullet will make the crimes like driveby's and other senseless crimes - like a convenience store armed robbery pay less and less ... It wont affect self defence guns. You can easily use a bigger gun to shoot the intruder ... the $100 bullet wont affect that, cops will refund your bullets @ the timeof dead body removal.

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Srinath.

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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #207 - 01/18/13 at 09:12:15 Pay no mind to the statistics that were dropping on their own this whole time? People do not kill people because guns exist. Guns are not the cause. Guns are a mean. If you remove guns from the equation people will still want to kill people and nothing will have changed. --Steve
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon' Reply #208 - 01/18/13 at 09:50:32 Srin there's only 1 way your tax-a-bullet will be acceptable, that there's acceptable tax free use of bullets, such as hunting and practice. There's no way you're gonna prevent shells used at a drive by from being thrown in with Joe Blows practice session.
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srinath

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Re: I propose we define 'assault weapon'
Reply #209 - 01/18/13 at 12:07:08

Paraquat wrote on 01/18/13 at 09:12:15:

Pay no mind to the statistics that were dropping on their own this whole time?

People do not kill people because guns exist.
Guns are not the cause. Guns are a mean.
If you remove guns from the equation people will still want to kill people and nothing will have changed.

--Steve

People will kill people ... so guns are not the problem ... gun nuts say.

There is 1 fundamental flaw with that ... It will take a lot longer and in some cases be impossible without guns ...

Dude Like I said ... a 27 body pile up will be a 6 body pile up if You only gave the guy 6 bullets ...

Practice and hunting - I dont know ... Practice @ a gun range should probably be regulated by purchase @ the gun range and they get a tax exemption. They obviously cant let you out of there with the bullets or in with shells since they account it with shells.

But gun nuts play with guns and beer cans atleast in my hood. That I got no idea.

With hunting - again I would think there may not be a way to exempt that ... I have a couple friends that hunt with bows and arrows ... but they hunt deer, and they feed the deer ... sorta like eating bambi. Delsheeeous ... but lots of people hunt all sorts of things. Elk, moose ... whatever, bear ...

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Srinath.

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