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86 Savage - Starter Problem (Read 290 times)
James Lynch
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86 Savage - Starter Problem
10/16/12 at 12:57:12
 
So I had been having some blend issues with the carb and was adjusting it over the course of a couple days, riding around, seeing how it felt then making a little adjustment here and there.  At one point I went way too lean, the bike choked out, and in my attempts to get it started again the starter just stopped responding.  Now it just clicks.  I was able to push start the bike and get home but now there is just a heavy click sound when I try to turn it over.

My question is - is there even a temporary fix I can try to get the starter cranking again or should be looking at a new starter...  And if the latter is my option, then how difficult is one of the kits I see online?  I'm handy but I have never cracked open a starter before...

Thanks!
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #1 - 10/16/12 at 13:01:42
 
Weak battery... charge 'er up...
Use a 1 or 2 amp charger (no larger)...
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #2 - 10/16/12 at 13:03:57
 
Before you do anything, put the battery on a trickle charger.  It sounds like its almost dead....voltage drops when starter is engaged. Wink
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James Lynch
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #3 - 10/16/12 at 13:12:09
 
I'm charging it again now, let's see where that gets us, I have had my suspicions about this battery in general

Here's the bit I maybe should have mentioned too - when it choked out I had to start it a couple times to get it back steady idling (I assume it had to "level back out" with the carb mix after I went way too lean) and that killed the battery, it was trying to start but the battery quickly drained after a couple attempts.  So I got a jump off one of those battery packs.  It worked once, then the guys battery pack died as well and that is when I started just getting the click.  So I pushed it at that point and got home alright, about a 20 minute open ride, and I assumed that would have been enough to get the battery charged up again, but maybe now... This is just more info on the exact circumstance.

I'll give it a good charge, try cranking it, then report back.  Thanks everyone!
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #4 - 10/16/12 at 15:03:16
 
I'd suggest too it's an empty battery.
If you would like to have an inside look of your starter, it's not that difficult at all. Maybe the brushes are worn out or they just stick in their channels because graphite dust blocks them. Also maybe one (or some) of the springs which give pressure to the brushes are broken.

If you are going to dissassemble the starter, make some sure marks on the end plates and the body tube to get all realigned. Have a can of brake cleaner spray, then you know. It's nothing more than an electric motor which draws lots of amperes!
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #5 - 10/16/12 at 15:50:07
 
That bike is old enough to have problems in the starter & couple that with the absolute Pickiness of the Savage requiring a hot battery & youre set up for problems. Id have to get the battery tested,, mite as well haul the starter in, too,, auto parts stores dont charge for those tests usually.,
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James Lynch
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #6 - 10/16/12 at 22:00:44
 
Well I charged up the battery, tried it, nothing.  The starter wouldn't even turn.  But the lights etc came on.  So I decided to hook it up to the battery in the little Honda Civic and see if that would get a response.  When I did that it would commence with the clicking sound again but otherwise nothing.  So I went and swapped this battery for a new one, going to trickle charge it overnight and try again tomorrow.  

I also went ahead and took the starter out, all the teeth look fine and the gear look sharp.  I tried to turn the starter and could by hand although it was quite tough.  Since the auto shop I stopped by couldn't test it I put it all back in, once I try this new battery I'll report back.  Thanks!
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #7 - 10/16/12 at 22:19:01
 
Leave the starter On the Bench. Connect the hot lead from the battery ( on the bench) to the starter. Clip the ground on it & hold ON,,
tell us what happens
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #8 - 10/17/12 at 12:18:59
 
So here's the update -

Got new battery, charged overnight, put in this morning and tried to turn over.  The starter turned, the engine thumped, but it didn't start.  I let off the starter, waited a second, tried again, this time just back to the click I had been hearing and nothing else, no turning of the engine.  The first two times it gave me the click it clicked and then made a little whine sound, then just the click, no whine.  The sound was not air, sounded electric, like the starter really wanted to turn but couldn't.  

So now - new battery, still won't start, although it came close for a second this morning.

I tried to hook the battery to the starter directly, not sure if I grounded it correctly thought, nothing happened, just a spark...

So now the solenoid and the starter itself remain by my count, any suggestions of something I can try next to narrow this down more?  Or if the starter is jammed up for some reason is there a cleaning or servicing I can give it that brings it back to life?
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #9 - 10/17/12 at 12:40:34
 
That starter is Old, man. IDK how many miles are on it, but, Id take the starter off & have it tested. Even if they say they dont have the "right" equipment , all they have to do is strap it down, ground it & slap 12 volts to it, Or, you can do it. YOu say you dont know if you had the wires right, Just take the  hot wire off the starter, the thing is supposed to be grounded thru the strap by the clutch & all the bolts, but that strap carries the Current, so, jump from A battery, Id use a car battery & hook the hot clamp onto a wire wrapped & tightened under the nut on the post, so you cant arc & wreck the threads & hit the negative clamp somewhere on the starter case. Be In Neutral,,,If it wont spin then, its the starter,
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #10 - 10/17/12 at 12:56:32
 
Ah, okay thanks, I wasn't sure where to ground the negative and didn't clamp it to the starter body first time, I'll try this and let you know what I get...
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #11 - 10/17/12 at 12:58:54
 
check that your decomp is working.
You might rotate the engine forward till you can operate the decomp lever by hand and it rotates all the way up and then retry the starter.
This puts the engine on the exhaust stroke same as what the decomp does.

I hope you didn't hear any cracks today.
The 86 doesn't have a torque limiter on the starter.
so if it thumps backward it'll bust out the starter mounts.
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James Lynch
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #12 - 10/17/12 at 13:16:01
 
Ha, so I think the starter is the issue.  Took it out, connected it like advised, nothing.  Took the wires off, turned the starter a little by hand, then tried again.  ONe or two turns resulted, which seems like it won't budge anymore unless I kind of jostle it with my hand.  

Should I look at a replacement or crack it open and clean it up some?

Thanks for all your help!
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #13 - 10/17/12 at 13:18:54
 
And now I can't turn the starter by hand...  Totally locked up
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Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem
Reply #14 - 10/17/12 at 13:34:14
 
Ah, and now I have opened the starter.  One of the large magnets in the body has broken in a couple places and shifted positions.  So there are pieces of magnet in there and one of the big 4 is not where it should be, I'm guessing this is the heart of the problem...  What's the best way to approach this now?
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