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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 86 Savage - Starter Problem /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350417432 Message started by James Lynch on 10/16/12 at 12:57:12 |
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Title: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/16/12 at 12:57:12 So I had been having some blend issues with the carb and was adjusting it over the course of a couple days, riding around, seeing how it felt then making a little adjustment here and there. At one point I went way too lean, the bike choked out, and in my attempts to get it started again the starter just stopped responding. Now it just clicks. I was able to push start the bike and get home but now there is just a heavy click sound when I try to turn it over. My question is - is there even a temporary fix I can try to get the starter cranking again or should be looking at a new starter... And if the latter is my option, then how difficult is one of the kits I see online? I'm handy but I have never cracked open a starter before... Thanks! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by Serowbot on 10/16/12 at 13:01:42 Weak battery... charge 'er up... Use a 1 or 2 amp charger (no larger)... |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by SALB on 10/16/12 at 13:03:57 Before you do anything, put the battery on a trickle charger. It sounds like its almost dead....voltage drops when starter is engaged. ;) |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/16/12 at 13:12:09 I'm charging it again now, let's see where that gets us, I have had my suspicions about this battery in general Here's the bit I maybe should have mentioned too - when it choked out I had to start it a couple times to get it back steady idling (I assume it had to "level back out" with the carb mix after I went way too lean) and that killed the battery, it was trying to start but the battery quickly drained after a couple attempts. So I got a jump off one of those battery packs. It worked once, then the guys battery pack died as well and that is when I started just getting the click. So I pushed it at that point and got home alright, about a 20 minute open ride, and I assumed that would have been enough to get the battery charged up again, but maybe now... This is just more info on the exact circumstance. I'll give it a good charge, try cranking it, then report back. Thanks everyone! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by LouSiana on 10/16/12 at 15:03:16 I'd suggest too it's an empty battery. If you would like to have an inside look of your starter, it's not that difficult at all. Maybe the brushes are worn out or they just stick in their channels because graphite dust blocks them. Also maybe one (or some) of the springs which give pressure to the brushes are broken. If you are going to dissassemble the starter, make some sure marks on the end plates and the body tube to get all realigned. Have a can of brake cleaner spray, then you know. It's nothing more than an electric motor which draws lots of amperes! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/12 at 15:50:07 That bike is old enough to have problems in the starter & couple that with the absolute Pickiness of the Savage requiring a hot battery & youre set up for problems. Id have to get the battery tested,, mite as well haul the starter in, too,, auto parts stores dont charge for those tests usually., |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/16/12 at 22:00:44 Well I charged up the battery, tried it, nothing. The starter wouldn't even turn. But the lights etc came on. So I decided to hook it up to the battery in the little Honda Civic and see if that would get a response. When I did that it would commence with the clicking sound again but otherwise nothing. So I went and swapped this battery for a new one, going to trickle charge it overnight and try again tomorrow. I also went ahead and took the starter out, all the teeth look fine and the gear look sharp. I tried to turn the starter and could by hand although it was quite tough. Since the auto shop I stopped by couldn't test it I put it all back in, once I try this new battery I'll report back. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/12 at 22:19:01 Leave the starter On the Bench. Connect the hot lead from the battery ( on the bench) to the starter. Clip the ground on it & hold ON,, tell us what happens |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 12:18:59 So here's the update - Got new battery, charged overnight, put in this morning and tried to turn over. The starter turned, the engine thumped, but it didn't start. I let off the starter, waited a second, tried again, this time just back to the click I had been hearing and nothing else, no turning of the engine. The first two times it gave me the click it clicked and then made a little whine sound, then just the click, no whine. The sound was not air, sounded electric, like the starter really wanted to turn but couldn't. So now - new battery, still won't start, although it came close for a second this morning. I tried to hook the battery to the starter directly, not sure if I grounded it correctly thought, nothing happened, just a spark... So now the solenoid and the starter itself remain by my count, any suggestions of something I can try next to narrow this down more? Or if the starter is jammed up for some reason is there a cleaning or servicing I can give it that brings it back to life? |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/12 at 12:40:34 That starter is Old, man. IDK how many miles are on it, but, Id take the starter off & have it tested. Even if they say they dont have the "right" equipment , all they have to do is strap it down, ground it & slap 12 volts to it, Or, you can do it. YOu say you dont know if you had the wires right, Just take the hot wire off the starter, the thing is supposed to be grounded thru the strap by the clutch & all the bolts, but that strap carries the Current, so, jump from A battery, Id use a car battery & hook the hot clamp onto a wire wrapped & tightened under the nut on the post, so you cant arc & wreck the threads & hit the negative clamp somewhere on the starter case. Be In Neutral,,,If it wont spin then, its the starter, |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 12:56:32 Ah, okay thanks, I wasn't sure where to ground the negative and didn't clamp it to the starter body first time, I'll try this and let you know what I get... |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/12 at 12:58:54 check that your decomp is working. You might rotate the engine forward till you can operate the decomp lever by hand and it rotates all the way up and then retry the starter. This puts the engine on the exhaust stroke same as what the decomp does. I hope you didn't hear any cracks today. The 86 doesn't have a torque limiter on the starter. so if it thumps backward it'll bust out the starter mounts. |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 13:16:01 Ha, so I think the starter is the issue. Took it out, connected it like advised, nothing. Took the wires off, turned the starter a little by hand, then tried again. ONe or two turns resulted, which seems like it won't budge anymore unless I kind of jostle it with my hand. Should I look at a replacement or crack it open and clean it up some? Thanks for all your help! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 13:18:54 And now I can't turn the starter by hand... Totally locked up |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 13:34:14 Ah, and now I have opened the starter. One of the large magnets in the body has broken in a couple places and shifted positions. So there are pieces of magnet in there and one of the big 4 is not where it should be, I'm guessing this is the heart of the problem... What's the best way to approach this now? |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by Cavi Mike on 10/17/12 at 13:42:19 Get a new starter. |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by Dave on 10/17/12 at 13:45:21 http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-Suzuki-LS-650-LS650-Boulevard-Starter-only-800-miles-30-day-warranty-/360471095719?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53edc069a7&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by LouSiana on 10/17/12 at 13:45:22 5C5B455A58555E360 wrote:
Buy another one :-/ There's no reasonable possibility to fix that broken magnet. You can get all parts for the starter from Suzuki but hell, they are all but cheap. If you buy a used starter on ebay (for example), you pay much less. Look for offerers with good ratings |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 10/17/12 at 17:08:46 Is the one below compatible? I see different year ranges listed for a bunch of the ones online, do all 650's have the same starter? Thanks! I'll order one tonight 12292433222E353328202D32410 wrote:
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/12 at 18:13:04 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SUZUKI-LS650-SAVAGE-STARTER-/190741054209?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c690d8301&vxp=mtr they're all the same thru out the years. |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by Digger on 10/17/12 at 21:26:10 7D6E7978676A6C6E653A0B0 wrote:
There is some strangeness, however: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183949991/0#0 |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/12 at 22:13:32 76716F70727F741C0 wrote:
Well,, That one is done, dude,, some things are fixable, some arent, & that kinda problem ARENT.. Hey,, at least you found the problem, good goin,. |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by Cavi Mike on 10/18/12 at 10:41:44 By the way, the reason that magnet broke free like that is because the glue holding it in place melted from the starter over-heating. If you're having a hard time getting your bike to start - don't sit there with the starter button pressed and the motor spinning for minutes on end. Starters are only designed to be run for about 15 seconds before they need a 5 minute cool-down period. Obviously they can handle a little more abuse than that but if you managed to melt that glue - you went way over that. |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 11/03/12 at 10:01:00 Hey everyone - I want to thank you all for your help in diagnosing me through replacing the starter. I swapped it and it cranked right over, very nice. The last comment speaks to how I may have melted the glue, and yes, I was having trouble starting the bike and the starter must have certainly overheated. I thought originally this was because of a carb adjustment issue, then I thought because of my battery, but neither of those are the case. In fact, one the bike got started again with new starter I experienced a problem again, this time that it loses power, misses, as I ride, to the point that it will die and not start for a period. Looks like my plugs are getting fouled. I am going to start a new thread to address that problem, pot pictures of what I am working with, and hopefully you can help me out again. Thanks everyone, this forum is the best! |
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Title: Re: 86 Savage - Starter Problem Post by James Lynch on 11/03/12 at 10:03:02 Ah, and I meant to mention - I travel for a living so my absence was not due to just putting it off, my last post was done the day before I left and I just returned last night. Right back to work on the bike! Just didn't want my lack of final response to this thread to seem ungrateful, thanks! |
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