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Speed charts for all Savages... (Read 1313 times)
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Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage...
Reply #15 - 07/02/12 at 18:39:19
 
1987 model...

Transmission 4-speed constant mesh
Gearshift pattern 1-down,3-up
Primary reduction 1.888 (68/36)
Final reduction 2.956 (68123)
Gear ratios, Low 2.214 (3 1/ 14)
2nd 1.500 (27 / 18)
3rd 1.095 (23/21)
Top 0.875 (21 /24)
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage...
Reply #16 - 07/02/12 at 18:49:57
 
80's model Savage with 4spd...
...with 140/80-15 and stock 23 tooth front pulley.


4spd with 140/90-15 tire and stock 23 tooth front pulley.


4spd with 140/90-15 tire and 25 tooth front pulley.

Added to the first page, too...

Difference in gearing 1 through 3  insignificant,... 4th is right in between 4th and 5th on the 5spd...
Top gear @ 60mph...
4125rpm for the 4spd...
4000rpm for the 5spd...



PS... Thanks, 360... Wink...
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« Last Edit: 09/23/17 at 13:02:00 by Serowbot »  

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Routy
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #17 - 07/03/12 at 05:24:37
 
Don't matter what you guys "think".....the 5 speed will out accelerate the 4 speed....all other being equal.
The 2 speed slipaglide had a torque converter (fluid coupling) in front of it,....for those of you that didn't know that Wink
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #18 - 07/03/12 at 06:20:04
 
The difference is fractional...  an oversize 140/90-15 rear tire makes more difference...
Acceleration would be the same.  Only difference is, the 5 speed will cruise at 125 rpm less...
Stock engine will top out at 88 to 95mph,... so even top speed is achieved in 4th gear... which means, there isn't even one less gear change...

No speed or acceleration advantage to either...
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« Last Edit: 07/04/12 at 19:06:47 by Serowbot »  

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #19 - 07/03/12 at 11:25:17
 
You know, when you look at the stock tire chart between 4 speed and 5 speed, it's clear that the 5th gear has nowhere near the delta change of the other gears.   I pointed this out in an earlier post, but Serow did a better job of presenting it.   I think Zuk probably made the change as a marketing advantage more than anything else.   Too bad, because they squandered a chance to really improve the bike with a taller 5th gear.
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #20 - 07/03/12 at 11:33:53
 
It sure would be nice if we could figure out a 5th gear set that could be used from another bike.....or some aftermarket manufacturer would make one.  However.....I realize only a few of us "nuts" would actually pay for one or go through the trouble of tearing the engine down to install it.
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #21 - 07/04/12 at 10:29:43
 
Maybe just try and use a 1st gear pair and reverse install it as 5th gear pair.
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #22 - 07/04/12 at 10:39:01
 
ralfyguy wrote on 07/04/12 at 10:29:43:
Maybe just try and use a 1st gear pair and reverse install it as 5th gear pair.

actually, I'd like to try the 3rd gear set swap.
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #23 - 07/04/12 at 10:45:49
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/04/12 at 10:39:01:
ralfyguy wrote on 07/04/12 at 10:29:43:
Maybe just try and use a 1st gear pair and reverse install it as 5th gear pair.

actually, I'd like to try the 3rd gear set swap.

Why is that?
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gerald.hughes
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #24 - 07/04/12 at 11:43:20
 
Real world riding, given the charts that Serowbot provided, I would much rather have the 4 speed than the 5 speed.  If there weren't a lot of collateral problems, I would make the change.
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #25 - 07/04/12 at 17:40:21
 
Routy wrote on 07/03/12 at 05:24:37:
Don't matter what you guys "think".....the 5 speed will out accelerate the 4 speed....all other being equal.
The 2 speed slipaglide had a torque converter (fluid coupling) in front of it,....for those of you that didn't know that Wink

 

I don't have to 'think', I've owned both 4 & 5 speeds. The spread on the 4 speed is easier to shift just past peak torque while on the 5 speed the 4-5 shift is too close to be effective. All else being equal, the 4 speeds came with bigger jets, too. Smiley
If you had enough HP to pull to redline, the 5 speed would be slightly faster. In the real world the 4 speed will pull closer to redline on top end & actually go faster. You don't have to believe me, & I'm sure you won't, but I've lived in the same town & ran the same roads for 33 years now, so I know what my bikes are capable of. Grin

It really doesn't matter, a Savage is quick but won't even begin to keep up with the Yamaha XS650 or Norton Commando 750 I had.
That's just not what they are built for. Sad
The RD 350 I had outhandled any bike I've owned since,& would outrun 750 Hondas with 812cc kits, cams & headers. Of course it wasn't stock , either. If you really want to go fast, pick a different bike.
The LS650 is a throwback to a different age, & is a fun bike to ride. That's why I've had 3, & still own an '01. Unless somebody offers me stupid $$$$ for it, I'll keep it as a backup to my XVS950, & for my wife to learn to ride own. Cool
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #26 - 07/04/12 at 18:21:48
 
For you guys that think the 4 speed would be better just don't shift to 5th gear.Very simply fix.
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william h krumpen
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #27 - 07/04/12 at 18:47:28
 
Bill's right... The 4th on the 5spd, is insignificantly different from 4th on the 4spd... if you have a 140/90 on the rear, it's within 0.2mph difference at redline... the other 3 lower gears are super close too... each within 0.5 mph...
3k of tire wear makes that much difference...
So,.. no difference...

Ridge,.. apparently got a 4spd bike that was exceptional, and has attributed the performance to gearing.... but I doubt it was gearing...
They're just too mathematically similar...
Every once in while, an engine comes down the production line that got superior tolerances by luck... Black pearls...
I think you got one, Ridge...

5th gear just gives you a 250 rpm drop at cruise speed of 60mph...
I'll take that 250 rpm over not having it,... but I wish it was 400 or 500rpm...
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #28 - 07/04/12 at 19:49:26
 
There's no doubt my bikes always run well, I've been a mechanic for a living since I was 18. I started at 12 by rebuillding a lawn mower that I used to earn the money to get my first bike, a Honda 90 at 14. I modified it with stronger valve & clutch springs, and a reverse megaphone.
When I was 17, I worked for a startup Yamaha dealer uncrating & setting up bikes. At 18, I was a mechanic at a VW dealership. Back then they were big on training so I learned a lot more. I've drag raced & ran circle track whenever I could all my life. When I was 20, I bought my RD350 from the dealer I used to work for.That bike had a very well spaced 6 speed gearbox & needed it to stay in the power band. I went in on a Saturday & assembled 4 bikes (2 to a crate) just so I could ride each one & choose the 'best' one. At 1200 miles it got custom ported Wiseco pistons & went from stock bars to drag bars & then Tommaselli clipons. I still have the clipons as a souveneir.
My XS650 got a 750cc kit, Alphabet header & for a while, flat track cams.
This ain't my first rodeo or bar-b-que folks.
I guess we got two exceptional '87s because my friends' black one was just as fast as mine. The only thing done to either of them was holes drilled in the muffler & the air cleaner side cover. I did change to drag bars for a while but that didn't effect the speed. Point is, we never really modded the Savages for speed, because that isn't what they were designed for.
My new bike, my XVS950, has a drilled muffler & airbox, & a K&N filter. No FMS, because the plugs look fine the way it is. No point in doing more, just get a bigger bike if you want to go faster or farther.
I'm starting to get a little itch for a silver Stratoliner, 113 cubic inches of highway cruiser. But even if I get one in 2-3 years, I'll keep my Savage to remind me where I started, on a single. Cool

If the spread between gears was evenly spaced on the 5 spd like the 4 spd, it would be fine. I don't know what Suzuki was thinking when they decided on the gears for the 5 spd. It's worthless with the torque the 650 produces. Maybe the engineer was hung over that day. Shocked
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Tucson Az
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Re: Speed charts for all Savages...
Reply #29 - 07/04/12 at 19:53:52
 
RidgeRunner13 wrote on 07/04/12 at 19:49:26:
Maybe the engineer was hung over that day. Shocked

Well,.. if I ever met him,.. I'd give him a dope slap... Grin...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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