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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Speed charts for all Savages... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1341164470 Message started by Serowbot on 07/01/12 at 10:41:10 |
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Title: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 07/01/12 at 10:41:10 Updated 09/23/17 This will show your Rpm at any speed in each gear... Normal riding shift points should be around the 3000 to 4000 RPM range... Fastest acceleration probably more like the 5200 to 5800 Rpm range... If your set-up is not here,... you can play with the settings at Gearing Commander.com,.. just select Suzuki LS 650 and go from there... http://www.gearingcommander.com/ 8-) 5spd model 1. Stock rear tire... 140/80 -15 (these are actual speeds,.. not indicated on Speedo)( your indicated speed on the speedo is optimistic and will look more like Chart 2.,.. the one for the 140/90 -15 tire)... (KpH conversion at bottom of page).... http://i67.tinypic.com/2ypke90.jpg 2. 140/90-15 rear tire... (this tire is a close match to speedo, so actual speeds will closely match Speedo)... http://i65.tinypic.com/sgkbon.jpg 3.140/90-15 tire with 25 tooth front pulley http://i63.tinypic.com/283w50.jpg 4. RYCA uses is a 130/70H-18... (actual speed,.. don't know the error on a Ryca speedo)... http://i65.tinypic.com/a2gal3.jpg Stock speed chart in KpH... http://https://s24.postimg.org/wau8kd1th/kph.jpg :-?... pre 95' 4spd 1.80's model Savage with 4spd... ...with 140/80-15 and stock 23 tooth front pulley. http://i63.tinypic.com/befyib.jpg 2.4spd with 140/90-15 tire and stock 23 tooth front pulley. http://i65.tinypic.com/2hnufrt.jpg 3.4spd with 140/90-15 tire and 25 tooth front pulley. http://i65.tinypic.com/72qdd2.jpg Added to the first page, too... Difference in gearing 1 through 3 insignificant,... 4th is right in between 4th and 5th on the 5spd... Top gear @ 60mph... 4125rpm for the 4spd... 4000rpm for the 5spd... PS... Thanks, 360 for the 4spd ratios... ;)... UPDATED 09/23/17 SEROW |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by 360k+ on 07/01/12 at 10:51:26 Good schtuff Serow! I still wish Zuk had gone to a taller gear when they went to 5 speeds. That way, you could ride around town or hills like the standard 4 speed, but drop into overdrive for hwy cruising. |
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Title: Re: Gear/ RPM/ Speed Chart for 5spd Savage... Post by gerald.hughes on 07/01/12 at 11:21:52 All of which goes to show that 5th gear needs to be a lot wider. |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by CTeunuch on 07/01/12 at 13:46:02 I seem to top out around 70MPH with my 4 speed. According to the chart that seems about right, but do you guys think I should be able to get more out of it? |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Serowbot on 07/01/12 at 14:21:14 1E09382833283E355D0 wrote:
Depends on your weight and size, and how long a stretch you have,.. also, any incline, road surface, air density,... all kind of stuff... .. but,.. the 4spd is basically capable of 90mph... nearly the same as the 5spd... the 5spd just gives a slightly lower rpm at those higher speeds... but usually runs out of poop before redlining 5th gear... ;)... |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by spacepirates on 07/01/12 at 20:50:08 I suppose this chart isn't such a bad thing to check your jetting against. I've heard there is a method of checking your main jet which basically amounts to the top speed you can reach. Given the theoretical maximum here, if you can reach it, your main jet is solid. That being said, it seems like i've got some tuning to do, but i already knew that.... Serow, thanks for putting together a very solid presentation of absolute maximums (for "stock" engines) that we can check ourselves against. |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by 360k+ on 07/02/12 at 09:44:21 Note that these charts are strictly mechanical in nature; i.e., the ratio between engine RPM and tire RPM, in any given gear and circumference. Changing jets will change potential horsepower, but as far as the charts are concerned, they would remain the same whether you have 30hp or 100hp. |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/02/12 at 16:20:17 Come on, 'bot. Do one for the 4speeds now & you'll see why I always thought they were the best for the torque of the Savage! 8-) 5th gear was added because dealers had no clue how to sell a 4 speed bike. It adds nothing to the performance. :( |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by 360k+ on 07/02/12 at 16:32:11 You can rip one of these out yourself as long as you know the final gear ratios and tire circumference. Use the proggie Serow used or just do an Excel spreadsheet (which will draw the graph from the data). I even did one for my bass boat that showed engine RPM at various prop pitches. Our local boat shop still uses the copy I gave them to estimate speeds for their prop customers. |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Routy on 07/02/12 at 16:54:50 635855565463445F5F54430002310 wrote:
How ya figure w/ gears being closer together in the 5 speed, performance is not going to be better ? ::) |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by bill67 on 07/02/12 at 17:00:44 A 4 speed will go faster in 4th than a 5 speed in 4th that better performance ;D |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/02/12 at 17:02:50 One less shift, gearing fits torque curve better, overall gearing is nearly the same. 8-) Same reasons many drag racers use 2 speed Powerglides from the '60s even now. ;D |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Serowbot on 07/02/12 at 17:07:37 Ridge,.. look in your manual,.. and get the gear ratios... I'd like to have them,.. and add it to the post... I haven't been able to find them... |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Jack_650 on 07/02/12 at 18:01:24 Since I'm still on the quest for better mileage and still be able to climb mountains when I want to, is there a way to change the 5th gear to a taller gear. Does Suzuki have a gear in any of their other bikes that could be used? I've not looked inside the trannie so I don't know what things look like in there but I would assume things are pretty densely packed. Jack |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by bill67 on 07/02/12 at 18:08:43 0A313C3F3D0A2D36363D2A696B580 wrote:
Powerglide is my favorite automatic I had a 1964 chevolet 409 with powerglide,plus a lot of other chevy with it. |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by 360k+ on 07/02/12 at 18:39:19 1987 model... Transmission 4-speed constant mesh Gearshift pattern 1-down,3-up Primary reduction 1.888 (68/36) Final reduction 2.956 (68123) Gear ratios, Low 2.214 (3 1/ 14) 2nd 1.500 (27 / 18) 3rd 1.095 (23/21) Top 0.875 (21 /24) |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Serowbot on 07/02/12 at 18:49:57 80's model Savage with 4spd... ...with 140/80-15 and stock 23 tooth front pulley. http://i63.tinypic.com/befyib.jpg 4spd with 140/90-15 tire and stock 23 tooth front pulley. http://i65.tinypic.com/2hnufrt.jpg 4spd with 140/90-15 tire and 25 tooth front pulley. http://i65.tinypic.com/72qdd2.jpg Added to the first page, too... Difference in gearing 1 through 3 insignificant,... 4th is right in between 4th and 5th on the 5spd... Top gear @ 60mph... 4125rpm for the 4spd... 4000rpm for the 5spd... PS... Thanks, 360... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Routy on 07/03/12 at 05:24:37 Don't matter what you guys "think".....the 5 speed will out accelerate the 4 speed....all other being equal. The 2 speed slipaglide had a torque converter (fluid coupling) in front of it,....for those of you that didn't know that ;) |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 07/03/12 at 06:20:04 The difference is fractional... an oversize 140/90-15 rear tire makes more difference... Acceleration would be the same. Only difference is, the 5 speed will cruise at 125 rpm less... Stock engine will top out at 88 to 95mph,... so even top speed is achieved in 4th gear... which means, there isn't even one less gear change... No speed or acceleration advantage to either... |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by 360k+ on 07/03/12 at 11:25:17 You know, when you look at the stock tire chart between 4 speed and 5 speed, it's clear that the 5th gear has nowhere near the delta change of the other gears. I pointed this out in an earlier post, but Serow did a better job of presenting it. I think Zuk probably made the change as a marketing advantage more than anything else. Too bad, because they squandered a chance to really improve the bike with a taller 5th gear. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Dave on 07/03/12 at 11:33:53 It sure would be nice if we could figure out a 5th gear set that could be used from another bike.....or some aftermarket manufacturer would make one. However.....I realize only a few of us "nuts" would actually pay for one or go through the trouble of tearing the engine down to install it. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by ralfyguy on 07/04/12 at 10:29:43 Maybe just try and use a 1st gear pair and reverse install it as 5th gear pair. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by verslagen1 on 07/04/12 at 10:39:01 75666B617E60727E070 wrote:
actually, I'd like to try the 3rd gear set swap. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by ralfyguy on 07/04/12 at 10:45:49 504354554A4741434817260 wrote:
actually, I'd like to try the 3rd gear set swap.[/quote] Why is that? |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by gerald.hughes on 07/04/12 at 11:43:20 Real world riding, given the charts that Serowbot provided, I would much rather have the 4 speed than the 5 speed. If there weren't a lot of collateral problems, I would make the change. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/04/12 at 17:40:21 5F504A514D4B585A525C4B390 wrote:
I don't have to 'think', I've owned both 4 & 5 speeds. The spread on the 4 speed is easier to shift just past peak torque while on the 5 speed the 4-5 shift is too close to be effective. All else being equal, the 4 speeds came with bigger jets, too. :) If you had enough HP to pull to redline, the 5 speed would be slightly faster. In the real world the 4 speed will pull closer to redline on top end & actually go faster. You don't have to believe me, & I'm sure you won't, but I've lived in the same town & ran the same roads for 33 years now, so I know what my bikes are capable of. ;D It really doesn't matter, a Savage is quick but won't even begin to keep up with the Yamaha XS650 or Norton Commando 750 I had. That's just not what they are built for. :( The RD 350 I had outhandled any bike I've owned since,& would outrun 750 Hondas with 812cc kits, cams & headers. Of course it wasn't stock , either. If you really want to go fast, pick a different bike. The LS650 is a throwback to a different age, & is a fun bike to ride. That's why I've had 3, & still own an '01. Unless somebody offers me stupid $$$$ for it, I'll keep it as a backup to my XVS950, & for my wife to learn to ride own. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by bill67 on 07/04/12 at 18:21:48 For you guys that think the 4 speed would be better just don't shift to 5th gear.Very simply fix. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 07/04/12 at 18:47:28 Bill's right... The 4th on the 5spd, is insignificantly different from 4th on the 4spd... if you have a 140/90 on the rear, it's within 0.2mph difference at redline... the other 3 lower gears are super close too... each within 0.5 mph... 3k of tire wear makes that much difference... So,.. no difference... Ridge,.. apparently got a 4spd bike that was exceptional, and has attributed the performance to gearing.... but I doubt it was gearing... They're just too mathematically similar... Every once in while, an engine comes down the production line that got superior tolerances by luck... Black pearls... I think you got one, Ridge... 5th gear just gives you a 250 rpm drop at cruise speed of 60mph... I'll take that 250 rpm over not having it,... but I wish it was 400 or 500rpm... |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/04/12 at 19:49:26 There's no doubt my bikes always run well, I've been a mechanic for a living since I was 18. I started at 12 by rebuillding a lawn mower that I used to earn the money to get my first bike, a Honda 90 at 14. I modified it with stronger valve & clutch springs, and a reverse megaphone. When I was 17, I worked for a startup Yamaha dealer uncrating & setting up bikes. At 18, I was a mechanic at a VW dealership. Back then they were big on training so I learned a lot more. I've drag raced & ran circle track whenever I could all my life. When I was 20, I bought my RD350 from the dealer I used to work for.That bike had a very well spaced 6 speed gearbox & needed it to stay in the power band. I went in on a Saturday & assembled 4 bikes (2 to a crate) just so I could ride each one & choose the 'best' one. At 1200 miles it got custom ported Wiseco pistons & went from stock bars to drag bars & then Tommaselli clipons. I still have the clipons as a souveneir. My XS650 got a 750cc kit, Alphabet header & for a while, flat track cams. This ain't my first rodeo or bar-b-que folks. I guess we got two exceptional '87s because my friends' black one was just as fast as mine. The only thing done to either of them was holes drilled in the muffler & the air cleaner side cover. I did change to drag bars for a while but that didn't effect the speed. Point is, we never really modded the Savages for speed, because that isn't what they were designed for. My new bike, my XVS950, has a drilled muffler & airbox, & a K&N filter. No FMS, because the plugs look fine the way it is. No point in doing more, just get a bigger bike if you want to go faster or farther. I'm starting to get a little itch for a silver Stratoliner, 113 cubic inches of highway cruiser. But even if I get one in 2-3 years, I'll keep my Savage to remind me where I started, on a single. 8-) If the spread between gears was evenly spaced on the 5 spd like the 4 spd, it would be fine. I don't know what Suzuki was thinking when they decided on the gears for the 5 spd. It's worthless with the torque the 650 produces. Maybe the engineer was hung over that day. :o |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 07/04/12 at 19:53:52 003B36353700273C3C37206361520 wrote:
Well,.. if I ever met him,.. I'd give him a dope slap... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/04/12 at 20:13:41 3F293E233B2E23384C0 wrote:
Well,.. if I ever met him,.. I'd give him a dope slap... ;D...[/quote] Could you hit him with a 2x4 instead? I think we need to make a real 'impression' on him! ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by High_Plains_Thumpr on 07/05/12 at 21:38:15 4A5C4B564E5B564D390 wrote:
Thanks for this info, Serowbot. Just looking at the chart, it mirrors my tach readings spot on. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by AsphaltMan on 05/17/15 at 17:55:44 hmm 4 or 5 speeds, I have 5. I never usually get out of 3rd, 4th is a luxury. Thank you very much for the chart, I find my experiences very close to what you post, possibly a tad faster, but what is speed? Unless you are in a hurry? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Acidrich on 07/19/17 at 03:35:05 Hi, The charts seem to have disappeared or can't be viewed? I've built the Vespa/Savage hybrid with 10" wheels and need to check the gearing. At the moment 55mph is 3500rpm..... Cheers Richard |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Dave on 07/19/17 at 04:43:40 Yes, unfortunately they are all stored on Photobucket and they no longer allow you to use their site for hosting photos.....unless you pay them $ 40 a month! |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by eau de sauvage on 07/19/17 at 06:11:43 @Dave, you need to organise a sticky telling people to use https://postimages.org it's free to post they are permanent and you don't even need to sign up, plus they have codes for thumbnails, galleries or direct links. Here's one that I converted to KPH for my own use from the one that was originally posted here. Pretty sure the original mph one must be somewhere on the forum. http://www.gearingcommander.com is a useful tool as well http://https://s1.postimg.org/i0t9vevsf/kph.jpg |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Acidrich on 07/19/17 at 07:20:14 Cheers Chaps, Forgot to mention I have the 4 speed box. There seems to be a lot of contradictory info about but 6500rpm seems a little optimistic? |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Dave on 07/19/17 at 07:46:02 7C5E54594F545E553D0 wrote:
Most road vehicles are geared so they can get good mpg when they are in high gear - and they cannot reach the redline rpm in high gear (without the help of a steep slope and a strong tail wind). Why does the chart you posted have 6 gears? :-? |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Acidrich on 07/19/17 at 13:20:08 1B202D3A2B273C3A2129243B480 wrote:
Most road vehicles are geared so they can get good mpg when they are in high gear - and they cannot reach the redline rpm in high gear (without the help of a steep slope and a strong tail wind). Why does the chart you posted have 6 gears? :-? Was'nt me :) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 07/19/17 at 14:28:14 I'm really hoping Photobucket sees the error of their ways... and restores everyone’s photo links... |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by Dave on 09/20/17 at 04:02:43 0503101B5B5751505B620 wrote:
Can someone look up and list the gear ratios for the 5 speed? (I don't have a manual near me today). |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by Serowbot on 09/23/17 at 13:12:44 Gearing charts have been updated as of 09/23/17 - Serow 8-)... |
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Title: Re: New improved Speed charts for 5spd Savage... Post by faffi on 07/05/18 at 13:21:22 5D5B4843030F0908033A0 wrote:
Transmission 5-speed constant mesh Gearshift pattern 1-down, 4-up Primary reduction 1.810 (67/37) Final reduction 2.956 (68/23) Gear ratios, Low 2.333 (35/15) 2nd 1.579 (30/19) 3rd 1.142 (24/21) 4th 0.957 (22/23) Top 0.885 (23/26) Overall, stock 4-speed, top: 4.886 Overall, stock 5-speed, top: 4.735 Overall, 4-speed with 5-speed primary, top: 4.682 So this gives us the following rpm @ 60 mph in top: Stock 4-speed, 140/80-15: 4136 Stock 4-speed, 140/90-15: 3955 Stock 4-speed, 150/90-16: 3701 Stock 4-speed, 140/80-18: 3673 Stock 4-speed, 140/90-18: 3530 4-speed, 1.810 primary, 140/80-15: 3965 4-speed, 1.810 primary, 140/90-15: 3789 4-speed, 1.810 primary, 150/90-16: 3546 4-speed, 1.810 primary, 140/80-18: 3521 4-speed, 1.810 primary, 140/90-18: 3382 Stock 5-speed, 140/80-15: 4008 Stock 5-speed, 140/90-15: 3831 Stock 5-speed, 150/90-16: 3585 Stock 5-speed, 140/80-18: 3560 Stock 5-speed, 140/90-18: 3419 Not sure how tall or wide a rear wheel that will fit, but it is a fairly simple way to obtain substantial less rpm. |
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Title: Re: Speed charts for all Savages... Post by DragBikeMike on 07/05/18 at 14:34:41 Thanks Serow & Faffi. Excellent info. Obviously a lot of work went into this. I appreciate your sharing. Best regards, Mike |
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