Serowbot wrote on 08/04/11 at 11:04:16:

I can't,......because theres not !

Your wife wants to know why you had your dipstick out and were waving it around .....



possessive, ain't they?

DrunkenDwarf wrote on 08/04/11 at 21:02:37:

You failed ?? What happened, ....didja run outta oil ?
Its perdy hard to fail when alls ya gotta do is keep pourin oil in it till ya can see it.

But in all seriousness, if your bike can't handle it, then don't do it.
Mine sets on the low line when cold. I don't know how much total oil it takes to put it there. But next time I change it, I will pay attention.

And no, Drunken, you shouldn't wouldn't -- that's what the hot test is for.   Different oils expand differently and it is the expanded volume that you are concerned about.

Side stands are a variable too, they hold our bikes at different angles (and we are prone to add things to them like pucks and magnets which increase vertical, and we are prone to damaging them/bending them over time which decreases vertical).

I always think an owner WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT IS CURRENTLY WHAT can make the best informed choices for him and his scooter.

Suzuki's method leaves you with precious little reserve oil capacity on a bike that uses oil (when you get up in mileage anyway).

The side stand method has more oil capacity,  but the method requires you to:

1) understand it (the method)
2) do the HOT TEST and understand what it is saying to you


I get what Drunken is saying -- his oil and his side stand and his garage level don't work out for him -- he fails the hot test.   So he will do a modded variation,  likely a block under sidestand vertical variation or a rock it and it goes black variation (which is what I use in the mountains because there ain't no flat spots up there for me to use).

Heck, somebody had to fail the hot test, or why would we be telling you you need to do it?


Drunken, what oil are you using?

(jest curiosity -- oils expand differently)

Routy,  do your hot test and tell us what you see.

My bike, my side stand, my garage gives me a hot test that just about matches what I see on a side stand fill -- but I use a magnet under my side stand foot and my side stand is bent out a bit from using the side stand to hold the bike up during a truck carry.

Every bike (and every brand of oil) will likely hot test slightly differently.

Is failing hot test instantly  "harmful" ......  not really.   It is just not optimal and should be avoided.

I suspect everyone that hits their brakes hard (when going down hill especially) puts some oil up inside the shelf area where the crank spins.  

The crank bob weight just splashes it back out over the gear clusters and it has been doing that for 25 years or more.  By the same tolken, I don't think you would want to run it that way all the time, oil frothing would have to occur and that's not good as froth doesn't lubricate like solid oil does.

The HOT TEST allows you to intelligently adjust where you side stand to, your running fill level, with accurate expanded oil volume information to optimize what you are actually doing.

Give it a whirl and see what it shows you .....

That isn't a hot test, hot test is an idle speed running engine held perfectly vertical by somebody else while you study the oil window with a flashlight.  

You are seeing if your expanded vertical oil level with the engine running (bike held upright like it is when you ride it) is going to get oil up into the crank area.

-- read up & redo & re-report.




WARNING NOTICE !!


Out of the window war and related side wars has come an important hot test to perform on your particular bike after you have picked your side stand oil in the window level.

The test is simple, after picking your handlebar alignment and resting condition, put your oil level stone cold where you want it to be for easy visibility.

Then ON A LEVEL SURFACE crank your fresh hot from a ride bike up, get it to a good idling rate (at least 1,000 rpm) and get somebody else to hold it straight upright while you shine a flashlight into the oil window with the bike running at idle.

Ideally,  you would like to see an empty window -- but many do not.    
If you see more than half a sight glass on this hot run test, then you need to take out some oil !!

You know the window empties completely when you crank it cold, cause you have already done this test with the bike stone cold.   What has changed is that your oil went from garage cold to engine hot -- oil expands when hot to the formula 0.0004 / degree F, so for a 300 degree F delta-T you get like a 10-12.0% change in volume.

10-12% is a significant enough change in oil volume for you to do the check again when the engine is full from just running hot.

On my bike I get just under half a window held upright when hot idling when I set the oil level to half a window on the sidestand with everything stone cold.  I am lucky, what I see stone cold on the side stand is just about what I see on the hot held vertical test.  You likely are not that lucky .....

You can't ASSume this works out this way for you, your garage isn't at the same degree of level as mine (mine isn't perfectly level) and my side stand is slightly bent and I use a sidestand adder magnet on the foot of my side stand and my oil expands like RotSyn expands (your oil likely expands differently).  

You have to check your own situation to find out your hot expansion truth.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you see a full oil window when idling a fully hot engine held bolt upright.
 
This would put you in danger of splashing oil with your crankshaft.  You need a half window or more of oil clearance to the crank splash shelf with your worst cast oil expansion due to hot engine temperatures -- a full window of clearance is of course the "optimum desired" amount but many do not get this on the hot test.



Now if this last bit seems out of kilter and "huh?" to you, it is because it was developed at the end of the thread that followed the thread that followed this one -- read your homework and it will make perfect sense to you

WOW!!!
it's getting really technical in here
Imma haffa go get technical on my bikes candy ass.