|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> side stand oil method /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1312152619 Message started by DrunkenDwarf on 07/31/11 at 15:50:18 |
|
Title: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 07/31/11 at 15:50:18 I don't know if there is a current thread for data points, so here's mine: Fill it with Rotella T so it's just peeking into the sight glass when on the side stand. Hot test: just fills the sight glass -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 07/31/11 at 16:02:45 +1 |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 07/31/11 at 16:10:08 Poll time again .... (the war is optional) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Serowbot on 07/31/11 at 16:29:57 ... lift the bike,... and shake it.... :-?... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by CBH on 07/31/11 at 18:10:19 I have always checked it while on the side stand. I like to be able to see the oil level in the bottom one third of the site glass. It's a quick visual check and no hassle! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 07/31/11 at 18:22:42 Sorry, I didn't mean to revive the war! Based on some of the old threads I probably should remove a few ounces of oil to keep it mid or lower during the hot test. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 07/31/11 at 18:59:37 I was involved in the last war--I was converted to a sidestand checker. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 07/31/11 at 19:24:20 If you put in the amount of oil specified in the owner's manual, then check the oil with the bike on the sidestand, what does the window show for oil level? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 07/31/11 at 20:06:53 While noting that all bikes can't run the higher levels, if I don't keep the oil between the lines while on the side stand, I feel like its low on oil. And that mite be fine except more oil = cooler running, and longer lasting. I myself have seen no ill effects from running the sidestand oil levels for 4+ yrs.:o |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 07/31/11 at 20:18:27 Hey, if you're gonna quote me, at least quote some vague reference I made. Routy, is there a tea bagger party for the oil war? I can not go with high oil levels, the super motox course I take (aka interstate 5) causes the oil to spit out the breather. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 07/31/11 at 20:37:44 6D5358454845482A0 wrote:
It doesn't. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 07/31/11 at 20:44:39 555C59504A5D59380 wrote:
It doesn't. -D. Dwarf [/quote] It doesn't what? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 07/31/11 at 21:02:54 447A716C616C61030 wrote:
It doesn't. -D. Dwarf [/quote] It doesn't what?[/quote] You can not see any oil in the window when filling with the amount of oil specified in the owner's manual and checking the oil with the bike on the sidestand. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/01/11 at 04:23:01 535A5F564C5B5F3E0 wrote:
It doesn't. -D. Dwarf [/quote] It doesn't what?[/quote] You can not see any oil in the window when filling with the amount of oil specified in the owner's manual and checking the oil with the bike on the sidestand. -D. Dwarf[/quote] Oh |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/01/11 at 04:33:56 716275746B6660626936070 wrote:
Ok, I didn't know anyone had a problem w/ the sidestand method. Maybe I'll rephrase. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by molo on 08/01/11 at 04:44:20 I check the oil level. I drain it. I measure the amount that comes out and put that much back in. Mike |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/01/11 at 04:46:01 7C7E7D7E6163787F656B110 wrote:
What if you were overfilled or underfilled when you drained it? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/01/11 at 05:12:25 What do you measure the dirty oil with? (jest curious) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by CBH on 08/01/11 at 05:22:46 74767576696B70776D63190 wrote:
Really? I've never heard that one before!! :o |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/01/11 at 07:50:56 0D0F0C0F1012090E141A600 wrote:
If you check it before you drain it, how do you check it ? So then why not check it the same way when filling it. Our idea is to check it w/o ever moving it off the sidestand,.....and only one way to do that, keep the oil level in the site glass while on the sidestand. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/01/11 at 08:22:33 You will hear mention of the HOT TEST and other defining type tests .... .... if this term is strange to you, then you need to read up a little bit on the origins of the side stand test method so you understand what you are doing before you go to doing it. Remember, not all oils expand at the exact same rate. Each reference generally contains a link to the previous reference and you will find some of our little discussions literally go back for years history-wise. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288398790/0 most recent "window war" which was followed by this tech post http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1283793450/0 |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/01/11 at 08:36:27 0F2C2426252C2C2532400 wrote:
Why would the oil be dirty. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by thumperclone on 08/01/11 at 09:09:33 [/quote] Why would the oil be dirty.[/quote] too much porn?? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/01/11 at 09:19:46 Bill's favorite oil is communist red, and we all know commies don't have porn -- sex is one of the few "somethings" them commies can afford after all .... Klotz -- is that how you spell klutz in Russian? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/01/11 at 09:24:34 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
Here's a thought,... If you put in too much oil, and you ride around for a while, the oil will spit out of the breather until enough oil spits out so there is no excess oil to spit out anymore. If you put the bike on the sidestand after cleaning up the excess oil spitting, what oil level shows in the window? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/01/11 at 09:28:32 555E5B5B0100370 wrote:
Why would the oil be dirty.[/quote] Detergent oil is supposed to get less and less clear as the thousands of miles go by. Just because it is dirty, though, doesn't mean it isn't still lubricating properly. Most folks change their oil too often. (thought I'd just throw that in,.. and step back) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/11 at 09:35:00 6D5358454845482A0 wrote:
Here's a thought,... If you put in too much oil, and you ride around for a while, the oil will spit out of the breather until enough oil spits out so there is no excess oil to spit out anymore. If you put the bike on the sidestand after cleaning up the excess oil spitting, what oil level shows in the window? [/quote] Not showing. I fill to midline to max stock or modified sidestand procedure which is sidestand on brick, midline. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/01/11 at 09:55:04 Yep, especially them folks with syn oils that are good for 3-4 times the mileage they actually put on the bike between changes. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bluesrockdoc on 08/01/11 at 10:03:06 Wait... it needs oil!?!? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/11 at 10:04:58 62696C6C3637000 wrote:
Why would the oil be dirty.[/quote] The question doesn't apply to you bill. You have to ride it to get dirty. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/01/11 at 10:37:14 No blowby, no engine wear,No dirty oil 8-) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/01/11 at 13:23:02 Man, if my engine wasn't messed up, and I trusted a short road trip, I'd ride down by Bill67 and FORCE him to ride with me. He is only about 50 miles from me. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Serowbot on 08/01/11 at 13:28:35 If you ever do... make him go all the way around the block... ;)... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/01/11 at 13:43:54 Oh no, no body's con in me in to that trip. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/01/11 at 14:17:16 Worse yet, get a short movie of him sitting on his bike with it idling ..... ;D ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ticky ....... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/11 at 15:15:30 5C7F7775767F7F7661130 wrote:
OH the Horror :o clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky clacky ....... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/01/11 at 15:18:33 54777F7D7E77777E691B0 wrote:
Back in school we had to do some sort of real world study on powerplants as a requirement for an A&P. The team I was on chose to study how long the oil would last compared to the length of time an engine was run each time between cooldowns. To cut to the chase, if an engine is in good shape (meaning not much blow-by), and it ran for about 20-30 minutes AFTER it warmed up all the way (to boil off the goop from the condensation created during startup), the oil would last for WAY beyond the manufacturer’s (both oil and engine) recommendations. This would be even more true for motorcycle/automotive engines because they are under much less thermal stress than air-cooled aircraft motors. If you yahoo search (please not google) the subject, you can find lots of chemical engineers in forums making the same point – changing your oil every 3,000 miles is just plain wasteful. Some of them say they change their oil every 10,000 miles or so. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/01/11 at 15:53:41 When I was in high school,A buddy of mines dad didn't believe in changing oil he just kept adding if and when it needed it, He was a farmer and had tractors and other farm machinery that he never changed the oil in.That was back in the 50's. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/01/11 at 16:30:43 How many bikes here are spittin oil on the sidestand method ? I never heard of it till Versal said his does, only because its a little loose in the top end I'd guess?? I know mine sure don't. I checked it this morning before starting.....it was at low line. After 25 miles of 40-50 very wine-dy roads, I took a break........back in the woods by a stream, and just happened to notice the oil level was at the hi line,........surprised me it changed that much. And never any sign of spittin oil. Anyway, if I even had a hint of my bike spittin oil, I would drop the SS method in a heart beat. But I thought it was determined a long time ago that the SS levels don't hurt a thing. And normally, I don't believe it does, or no one would do it. Now, why did I say all that ? I'm gonna do what I do anyway, and so are you all ! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/11 at 16:54:42 4A594E4F505D5B59520D3C0 wrote:
If all the roads I take were as good as the dragon or I drove around like bill... but I don't, I tell you I have seen zero g's. and oil don't stay put that way. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/01/11 at 23:16:48 Sidestand method might not be working for me. Oil isn't visible in the window anymore. It moved during the 1st ride after the change (didn't change the filter), but hasn't moved since. Currently it's just below the window when on the sidestand. I'll have to check the drain tube (stock airbox) for oil. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/02/11 at 12:36:02 Many engines will use oil under excessive amounts of deceleration,...when manifold vacuum is at its highest, and my bike sees more of that than most I would guess,...because there ain't a flat spot in these hills here. So it seems I would experience SS method oil consumption if anyone would,......but I just don't see any at all. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/02/11 at 12:47:25 My bike doesn't hardly use any oil,I never had a bike that did,I think the ones that use oil are revving a lot of rpm,And a Big single is a motor you shouldn't rev.You can tell by the way a motor feels if it likes to rev are not. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/02/11 at 13:21:58 3A3134346E6F580 wrote:
How does it feel if it likes to rev? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by feelinjunky on 08/02/11 at 14:16:40 I use KLOTZ motor oil. I DRINK IT for breakfast, lunch and dinner BY THE BARREL. When I got my bike, I drained that black crap that Americans call engine oil and BURNED it in a fire for heat! All red communist KLUTZ oil OUT LUBES the competition. I check my oil level bidaily even when I don't ride the bike for weeks! I have been going 20,000 miles without an oil change and my KOLTZ engine oil is still BLOOD RED!!! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/02/11 at 16:12:58 yup, drinking that klutz stuff will do that to you ..... ..... jest lookit 'ol Bill -- he's been a swilling it fer years now. Verslagen, he used him some klutz last year, but he put it away and has sworn it off now completely .... his engine went and died on him and that cut off his infection kinda like chopping off an arm would do fer a badly gangrened hand. Tell you how bad the klutz stuff is, the brand spanky new rebuilt engine went and died on him again -- he had to swap in a new lower end to get rid of the klutz infection as all the upper parts were bored and replaced, etc so only the lower end had the klutz infection still in it. His hardened steel main and counterbalancer ball bearings were going bad on him -- can you imagine what klutz would do down in yer guts if you drank it like Bill does? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/02/11 at 16:42:45 One teaspoon of diesel oil will clean up the infection. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Arizuno on 08/02/11 at 19:01:16 This and the related threads have compelled me to sharply increase my consumption of olives and the martinis in which they're immersed. When we refer to the "side stand method" are we referring to the side stand on the floor method or the side stand on the flat side of a 2X4 method? And just who are "we"? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/02/11 at 19:30:10 Method,....? I think we are talking the one in which we walk past our bike, and almost accidently see the oil level. We are way beyond 1x4s, 2x4s, sticks, shims, mirrors, magnafying glasses etc etc. We,.....? We're the ones who dam near got killed,....not to mention the battle scars that got left on man and beast from checking oil the stupid rediculous Suzuski way ! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/04/11 at 03:01:06 The folks who prop their bikes up on thick objects until they are teetering on the edge of destruction like to think of themselves as "vertical" folks -- why I do not know as they are on the side stand as you have pointed out and they have stuck in an undocumented block of something into the equation on top of that. Real side stand on the ground folks won't claim them as they are kinda like sissies, splitting the difference between the methods and saying they are "following the manual" like it has some sort of magical mojo associated with following the erroneous thing. In truth, there is an error in the manual, either the 2.5 quarts of oil as listed in the manual is wrong or the test method is wrong as the two items are incompatible with reality and with each other. Trying to get folks to say which of the two is the error so it can be properly listed in the Clymers error log that we keep in the tech section really sends them "prop her uppers" into a complete tizzy since none of their little props are listed in either place. ;D .... and I am being nice when I call them sissies ..... some go a bit beyond that into the realm of "bungie strap bondage" or actual "chockaholics" http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9008/level6ejm7.jpg |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/04/11 at 06:23:12 5271797B787171786F1D0 wrote:
If you had the proper amount of oil in the motor, what would it look like in the window if you had a beautiful babe sitting on the bike, feet on the ground, hands on the handlebars, holding the bike in a vertical position? Would a tipover be more or less likely using the babe or using the sidestand on bricks? :D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/04/11 at 06:34:09 Votes counted: 64 |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/11 at 07:26:34 013F3429242924460 wrote:
I tip over is more likely, as I would be more apt to checking the babes oil ::) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/04/11 at 07:54:07 32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
I tip over is more likely, as I would be more apt to checking the babes oil ::)[/quote] Ah. I can relate. I can see it now,.... she and her 44D's mostly covered by a short t-shirt would be stabilizing the bike, while you are on your hands and knees pretending to look at the oil window. She sees you stealing glances at the lower part of the t-shirt, gets irate, and hops off the bike, gleefully letting it crush you as it falls over. Now that we are done with that,.... what did the window look like before she flattened you? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/04/11 at 08:03:02 Would a tipover be more or less likely using the babe ------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, me tipping over w/ a heart attack would be more likely ! :-/ ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/11 at 08:17:54 What window? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/04/11 at 10:48:37 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
The T-Shirt window! :D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Serowbot on 08/04/11 at 11:04:16 Tell me there's a better way... :-?... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/funnycycle011.jpg?t=1312481008 |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/04/11 at 11:09:56 I think that bra is over filled. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by EJID on 08/04/11 at 12:03:19 010A0F0F5554630 wrote:
Naaa, that's just the "reserve" that's on tap ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/04/11 at 12:54:31 She can check my oil any time she likes. I promise not to drop the bike on her..... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/04/11 at 15:39:12 3523342931242932460 wrote:
I can't,......because theres not ! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bluesrockdoc on 08/04/11 at 17:39:44 I've got a dipstick for... never mind, here comes my wife. :P |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/04/11 at 18:43:33 Your wife wants to know why you had your dipstick out and were waving it around ..... ;D possessive, ain't they? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/04/11 at 21:02:37 Not to bring this back on topic, but I seem to have failed at the sidestand method. I filled it during the oil change so I can see it, but now I can't! So I have to at least shake the engine to get the oil sloshing around so I can see it in the window. It still fills the window when hot. I tried, I really tried. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/07/11 at 14:25:33 5B52575E445357360 wrote:
You failed ?? What happened, ....didja run outta oil ? Its perdy hard to fail when alls ya gotta do is keep pourin oil in it till ya can see it. :o But in all seriousness, if your bike can't handle it, then don't do it. Mine sets on the low line when cold. I don't know how much total oil it takes to put it there. But next time I change it, I will pay attention. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/07/11 at 21:30:04 5B544E55494F5C5E56584F3D0 wrote:
Failed in the sense I still have to stand on my head and shake the motor to see if there's oil. Easier than getting her vertical, but not as simple as some have it. Since I'm already failing the hot test with less oil than it takes to be visible on the side stand, I'm not going to be adding more. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/08/11 at 01:34:01 And no, Drunken, you shouldn't wouldn't -- that's what the hot test is for. Different oils expand differently and it is the expanded volume that you are concerned about. Side stands are a variable too, they hold our bikes at different angles (and we are prone to add things to them like pucks and magnets which increase vertical, and we are prone to damaging them/bending them over time which decreases vertical). I always think an owner WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT IS CURRENTLY WHAT can make the best informed choices for him and his scooter. Suzuki's method leaves you with precious little reserve oil capacity on a bike that uses oil (when you get up in mileage anyway). The side stand method has more oil capacity, but the method requires you to: 1) understand it (the method) 2) do the HOT TEST and understand what it is saying to you I get what Drunken is saying -- his oil and his side stand and his garage level don't work out for him -- he fails the hot test. So he will do a modded variation, likely a block under sidestand vertical variation or a rock it and it goes black variation (which is what I use in the mountains because there ain't no flat spots up there for me to use). Heck, somebody had to fail the hot test, or why would we be telling you you need to do it? Drunken, what oil are you using? (jest curiosity -- oils expand differently) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/08/11 at 06:14:03 I haven't done a hot test. I filled, and kept fillin (RT) till the oil is on the low line when cold. I'm not sure where it is when hot, but its at least on the hi line.....and maybe more,....just never really looked that close. But if a bike won't handle a low line cold fill, then there is no point to the SS method,..........except a 2x4 version would still work. Is mine the only bike that doesn't spit oil using a "low line cold fill" ? Amazing ! My (long dist) Bro does it the same w/ no problem,....so he says. And like said, we must be talking a stock unmodded, undamaged side stand, and OEM tires, on a flat floor. ED L has said that the bike leans a little more when fitted w/ his FCs,.......so any of this can make a big difference, and would/could put many bikes out of using the full SS method catagory. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/08/11 at 06:29:56 Routy, do your hot test and tell us what you see. My bike, my side stand, my garage gives me a hot test that just about matches what I see on a side stand fill -- but I use a magnet under my side stand foot and my side stand is bent out a bit from using the side stand to hold the bike up during a truck carry. Every bike (and every brand of oil) will likely hot test slightly differently. Is failing hot test instantly "harmful" ...... not really. It is just not optimal and should be avoided. I suspect everyone that hits their brakes hard (when going down hill especially) puts some oil up inside the shelf area where the crank spins. The crank bob weight just splashes it back out over the gear clusters and it has been doing that for 25 years or more. By the same tolken, I don't think you would want to run it that way all the time, oil frothing would have to occur and that's not good as froth doesn't lubricate like solid oil does. The HOT TEST allows you to intelligently adjust where you side stand to, your running fill level, with accurate expanded oil volume information to optimize what you are actually doing. Give it a whirl and see what it shows you ..... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/08/11 at 18:28:17 Not what I expected, nor is it what I thought I saw before. An hour+ ago, I checked the oil....cold....on the SS, it was just a trifle below the low line. Its not hot,....maybe 70 deg, I rode 5 miles, in and outta town, up and down a few hills, throttled it a few times, but nothing real strenuous,....parked it on the SS, same spot it was before. Checked the oil,.....but there wasn't any showing. I waited 2-3 minutes, then I saw a trifle at the bottom of the glass. Checked the oil 15-20 minutes later, engine still to hot to hold hand on it,......the oil was a trifle above the low line,.....verses a trifle below the low line when cold. Conclusion,....hardly an 1/8" in the window difference tween hot and cold. All I know is that it works for me. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/08/11 at 23:28:24 That isn't a hot test, hot test is an idle speed running engine held perfectly vertical by somebody else while you study the oil window with a flashlight. You are seeing if your expanded vertical oil level with the engine running (bike held upright like it is when you ride it) is going to get oil up into the crank area. -- read up & redo & re-report. WARNING NOTICE !! Out of the window war and related side wars has come an important hot test to perform on your particular bike after you have picked your side stand oil in the window level. The test is simple, after picking your handlebar alignment and resting condition, put your oil level stone cold where you want it to be for easy visibility. Then ON A LEVEL SURFACE crank your fresh hot from a ride bike up, get it to a good idling rate (at least 1,000 rpm) and get somebody else to hold it straight upright while you shine a flashlight into the oil window with the bike running at idle. Ideally, you would like to see an empty window -- but many do not. If you see more than half a sight glass on this hot run test, then you need to take out some oil !! You know the window empties completely when you crank it cold, cause you have already done this test with the bike stone cold. What has changed is that your oil went from garage cold to engine hot -- oil expands when hot to the formula 0.0004 / degree F, so for a 300 degree F delta-T you get like a 10-12.0% change in volume. 10-12% is a significant enough change in oil volume for you to do the check again when the engine is full from just running hot. On my bike I get just under half a window held upright when hot idling when I set the oil level to half a window on the sidestand with everything stone cold. I am lucky, what I see stone cold on the side stand is just about what I see on the hot held vertical test. You likely are not that lucky ..... You can't ASSume this works out this way for you, your garage isn't at the same degree of level as mine (mine isn't perfectly level) and my side stand is slightly bent and I use a sidestand adder magnet on the foot of my side stand and my oil expands like RotSyn expands (your oil likely expands differently). You have to check your own situation to find out your hot expansion truth. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you see a full oil window when idling a fully hot engine held bolt upright. This would put you in danger of splashing oil with your crankshaft. You need a half window or more of oil clearance to the crank splash shelf with your worst cast oil expansion due to hot engine temperatures -- a full window of clearance is of course the "optimum desired" amount but many do not get this on the hot test. Now if this last bit seems out of kilter and "huh?" to you, it is because it was developed at the end of the thread that followed the thread that followed this one -- read your homework and it will make perfect sense to you |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/09/11 at 05:25:03 I never said it was a hot test. I was doing an "expansion" test ;D Ok, one hot test comin up ! Could you repeat all that,....not sure I got it all ? ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/09/11 at 05:55:22 WOW!!! it's getting really technical in here Imma haffa go get technical on my bikes candy ass. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/09/11 at 08:18:12 40636B696A63636A7D0F0 wrote:
Just switched to Rotella T. Didn't do a filter change, so there's a little old oil in there too. Don't remember what I used before. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/09/11 at 08:30:40 Drunkin, I'm very surprised that Rotella T won't pass the hot test for you .... What's going on with your side stand I wonder? Ever have a "bend it" event of any kind with that side stand because your bike seems to be lying "further over" than normal? That would be a "bent out" condition on the side stand. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/09/11 at 08:36:13 6A4941434049494057250 wrote:
I bought it used in 2008 (1 year old) from a former co-worker. He said he never dropped it and I have no reason not to trust him. I've never dropped it. I'm not aware of any other "events". Although, I did just have it shipped from NY to WA in a moving truck. They may have tightened it down too much. I'll take a pic when I get a chance. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/09/11 at 08:36:18 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/09/11 at 09:03:01 That's how I bent mine, it was strapped down with straps in the bed of a pick up truck while resting on the side stand. I got back most of the angle lost when I put the big magnet on the end of the foot -- it also acts like a pavement puck to keep the bike from digging into heat soften pavement. Surprise, nobody's bike is new .... they all have had events of some sort. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/09/11 at 09:40:00 Ok, for the "hot test" Cold engine...on the SS, oil level is just a trifle below the low line. It was on the low line 800-1,000 mi ago. Engine hot, normal idle, bike vertical, window is mostly solid oil, except for a touch of bubbles at the very top. Just above idle, (fast idle) window is solid oil....no bubbles. Slow idle, (barely clickin over) window is 3/4 - 4/5 solid oil. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by EJID on 08/09/11 at 10:07:41 4E415B405C5A494B434D5A280 wrote:
I actually hadn't found this "HOT TEST" before, so I did a version of it this morning, engine was not real hot (only about a 2 mile in town ride before checking) BTW, running blue jug ROTSYN Cold engine...on the SS, oil level is just barely visible in the window. Engine semi-hot, normal idle, bike vertical, window is just over 1/2 full of oil. Just above idle, (fast idle), bike vertical, window is 3/4 oil....some bubbles. Slow idle, (I don't do a slow idle). |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/09/11 at 10:08:18 Is that on kick stand or up right. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/09/11 at 10:42:11 So according to what Oldfeller said and the REAL hot test done by Routy, he has too much oil in it. But he filled it cold on the SS to the bottom mark. When he did the test it was somewhere between the bottom mark and the bottom of the glass. Now if he had it at the bottom of the glass to begin with when cold, and then doing the Oldfeller hot test, it probably would still fill half the glass. That means he still has too much oil according to Oldfeller. Nope, too much oil on the HOT TEST is a full window. The preceding paragraph got several people pumped up quite a bit, but none of you who got pumped up noticed it contained erroneous information put down by a brick person who has never done a HOT TEST in his life. Go back up thread and read the HOT TEST again. Oldfeller I understand that there's people that have problems getting down to look at the glass with the bike upright and therefore like the bottom of the glass fill when cold and on SS, to not have to do that. What I do is, I found a spot in my front yard that is pretty good level. I turn the handlebar all the way left and put a piece of leftover 4x4 under the SS. That gets it pretty good vertical and level without trying to flip over to the other side. I put a bubble level on the starter and that confirms it that it's level. Then I got my hands free to get down on my knees comfortably to check the oil in the glass window. And that's how I fill it when I change oil-to the upper mark. It isn't too much effort, I keep the small piece of 4x4 handy and just park in the same spot. I check it every time before I go on a longer run. And I also check it after I came back. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/09/11 at 11:36:06 0F00030E4A0 wrote:
I actually hadn't found this "HOT TEST" before, so I did a version of it this morning, engine was not real hot (only about a 2 mile in town ride before checking) BTW, running blue jug ROTSYN Cold engine...on the SS, oil level is just barely visible in the window. Engine semi-hot, normal idle, bike vertical, window is just over 1/2 full of oil. Just above idle, (fast idle), bike vertical, window is 3/4 oil....some bubbles. Slow idle, (I don't do a slow idle).[/quote] I did the slow idle for just a couple minutes.....for info only. It appears that my test compares closely w/ yours, except mine has more oil in it. I'd wonder how "too much" oil is determined. I see no sign of mine having too much. Too much oil is a solid window during HOT TEST. Oldfeller |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/09/11 at 11:46:33 Quote: turn the handlebar all the way left and put a piece of leftover 4x4 under the SS. That gets it pretty good vertical and level without trying to flip over to the other side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can I say that using a 4x4 won't work on an all standard bike ? At least mine can't be trusted on little more than a 2x4 if the wind was blowin left to right ! It seems to me that this thread is now more than checkin the oil an easier way. It now is....how much more oil will it safely hold. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by EJID on 08/09/11 at 11:55:23 07081209151300020A0413610 wrote:
I actually hadn't found this "HOT TEST" before, so I did a version of it this morning, engine was not real hot (only about a 2 mile in town ride before checking) BTW, running blue jug ROTSYN Cold engine...on the SS, oil level is just barely visible in the window. Engine semi-hot, normal idle, bike vertical, window is just over 1/2 full of oil. Just above idle, (fast idle), bike vertical, window is 3/4 oil....some bubbles. Slow idle, (I don't do a slow idle).[/quote] I did the slow idle for just a couple minutes.....for info only. It appears that my test compares closely w/ yours, except mine has more oil in it. I'd wonder how "too much" oil is determined. I see no sign of mine having too much.[/quote] I took mine for a longer ride at lunch with a short highway jaunt and such just to make sure it was nice and hot. When I checked it right after mine was closer to yours so I am probably overfilled as well :( You guys are pumping each other up based on Ralfyguy's erroneous comment -- go back and read the silly HOT TEST again. Oldfeller With that being said, do I need to drain a little oil out before my longer ride this weekend? Or, since I don't think it is severly overfilled, just ride it and if I have a little blow out the crankcase breather I shouldn't worry? That is the purpose of that breather isn't it? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by rl153 on 08/09/11 at 13:27:43 I just tried the hot test . My oil is barely visible cold on the side stand . After driving 15 minutes I stood it up level on a brick under the kickstand ,at regular idle and high idle the window is full of oil . I guess I should empty some out ,but I didn't see any oil in the air cleaner compartment ,when I changed my air filter . I'm not sure about this hot test. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/09/11 at 15:24:05 515E445F434556545C5245370 wrote:
My bike is standard. The trick is with the handle bar all the way left. I even have some more room to tilt before it wants to fall over. The SS is not bent nor is anything else. If I leave the handlebar straight it won't work. I mean you COULD kick it over, but it would need a hard kick to do so. I do this all the time, never had an issue. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/09/11 at 15:41:43 EJID said, "....... just ride it and if I have a little blow out the crankcase breather I shouldn't worry? That is the purpose of that breather isn't it? The crankcase breather allows the crankcase pressure pulses to breathe. In our motor (being a thumper) the pulses are intense. Everytime the piston goes down, it wants to pump air into the crankcase,.. and on a power stroke, it is even more intense because of blow by. The breather lets this air/fume mix escape. When the piston is on a compression or exhaust stroke (moving upwards) there is just of the opposite of a pressure pulse,... the crankcase wants to suck in a lot of air. That is why breather tubes should have filters on them -- they suck in outside air. So, in the crankcase, it is SUCK/BLOW/SUCK/BLOW/SUCK/BLOW to the tune of 100 times each second at 6,000 rpm. The breather lets the crankcase vent those suckblow pressure pulses. If you have oil coming out the breather, you are overfilled. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by rl153 on 08/09/11 at 16:58:56 so the crankcase breather is located where the air filter is ,right? And if you don't have any oil in the air filter compartment ,you're not overfilled ,right? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/09/11 at 17:17:17 Put the handle bars straight, in gear,Take left hand on seat and pull it straight up and check the window,Its as easy as falling off a log. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/09/11 at 18:05:09 5D56535309083F0 wrote:
Bill, It ain't gonna happen over here, ok ! It appears that most the bikes are doing just fine using SS oil level. And whosever isn't, don't do it,....simple as that. This ain't anything new to me. I been doin it this way for 2 yrs, and the previous owner did it the same way. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by WD on 08/09/11 at 18:22:12 I quit worrying about it with mine years ago. 2 quarts 15W40 or 20W50 at filter/oil change. Add some if it has been leaking more than it should. Add a cup or two if the top end gets noisy. It's just an AJS or Matchless with crappier electrical parts. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/09/11 at 20:08:30 Same as on older cars, the pcv valve (positive crankcase ventilation), opens and closes as the blowby gases pulse, as Gyrobob said. Also, in the system is the breather filter. Blowby gases are routed out the valve cover, through the breather filter (to filter out any blowby oil), and into the air cleaner, thus recirculating the blowby gases back into the intake. On our bikes, there is no PCV valve and no breather filter. It's a free flowing system, but accomplishes the same thing. the oil in ours tends to settle in the airbox, and the gases get recirculated back into the carb. So if you have any blowby, you're gonna have some oil in the airbox. Even if you're not overfilled. I use the 2.5 Qt. method. On SS, it's at bottom of glass. Vertical, it's about 2/3 way up. I haven't done the hot test, or even the warm test. I trust that on my bike, 2.5 Qts. is the right amount. I don't have any oil in my airbox. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/09/11 at 21:09:18 We don't have a PCV valve on our bikes, we have a wad of screen mesh up in the head cover that keeps liquid oil splash out of the huff tube. The huff tube runs straight down to the protected side of the air filter and then dumps the vapors back through the carb, with the ugly emulsified liquid ooze shite going down the airbox drain tube that we open up when we do an oil change. Gross over oiling goes out the huff tube and down the airbox dump tube -- but apparently what the sidestand folks are saying is that our side stand levels are not resulting in any oil in the airbox. ======================== The HOT TEST is intended for you to know where your bike's oil level winds up while it is being ridden and while the oil is fully expanded. Some of you are getting educated on where you oil really runs at, which is right below the oil shelf that protects the spinning crankshaft. The oil shelf is right over the top edge of the oil window, so a full window of oil during the HOT TEST signals too much oil -- any air space seen in the window during the HOT TEST indicates the HOT TEST oil level is acceptable. Remember, a half window clear is the "ideal condition" and a full dark window is "fails test". Don't let Ralfyguy go get you all confused again. Frothing -- some folks are reporting bubbles on their hot test. This is NEW and it is good information to know about. A few bubbles are meaningless, but real frothing is bad, it is liquid oil in bulk getting churned into an air filled mass by gears and cranks and suchlike stuff. Frothing is not a few bubbles, it is a large mass of bubbles that slowly reduces and goes solid after you cut the bike off. I have never seen frothing. I use Rot Syn and I don't think it believes in frothing. I do see a mist/rain of oil that makes judging the HOT TEST oil window level a get a flashlight and get down on a blanket on your elbows and study it for a few minutes event, but I know I have a partial window condition while the bike is running, so I am not overfilled. What most of you are reporting is about the same thing I see (which is OK) with the exception of RL153 who is reporting a solid dark filled window during hot test. He says he's doing the HOT TEST right, but something's wrong with his set up --- you don't set an oil window level just peeping over the bottom window edge cold on the side stand and then see a solid window of oil idling held vertical during HOT TEST -- not unless you are running forward controls or have a really bent side stand swing arm. ================= So far I see nothing wrong with the "oil peeking over the edge of the window while cold on the side stand" trick -- providing you do your HOT TEST at least once and KNOW where your running oil level really is for the oil and oil window side stand level you are now using. I think the folks who are going mid window or higher on the side stand are pushing it a bit, but so far they say they have nothing going out their huff tubes to their air boxes, so I cannot biatch that they are doing something stone evil to their bikes. (I wouldn't do it personally but Informed People making informed choices about their own bikes -- that is what this list is about) ================== Froth people -- if you got real frothing you got an issue. Froth is BAD NEWS as froth doesn't lube like solid oil does, the oil film is interrupted by the air content and you could be getting some contact through your oil film on your plain bearings up in the head. Frothing is the original mass of oil getting bulked up with air bubbles, which increases the mass and puts more into the gears, which makes more froth which increases the mass yet again .... frothing is bad news and if you got frothing I'd change oil brand or oil levels or something to get it to stop. Ball bearings -- would they care all that much about froth? (this is a question because I don't know the answer) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/09/11 at 22:42:14 http://https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_Jvuy3Fxe_g/TkIYsr1unrI/AAAAAAAABKM/1pKkcAfBXcI/s800/sidestand.jpg Looks OK to me. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/09/11 at 22:55:20 Looks a lot better than mine does. Now that you got Ralfyguy out of your head do you still have any issues with your hot test? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/10/11 at 08:33:19 A little oil got used/redistributed since my change so now I can't see it in the window when on the side stand. So there's a little less in there than last week. I'll do another hot test when I get home from work tonight. After idling on I90 for 20 minutes, it'll be nice and hot. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/10/11 at 09:01:44 Neat thing about the side stand method that you come to appreciate as your bike gets older and uses more oil is that when it gets low, you just rock it a bit towards vertical and if the window shows oil you KNOW you have enough oil in there. Actually you have more real oil reserve that a vertical person has when he's freshly topped up ..... You can roll towards vertical at any time and actually see your extra reserve of oil and KNOW you are in no danger of actually running low. ;) People who vertical, they have to worry when their oil gets low and they should, their bikes are in mortal danger if the oil shows low and quite a few engines around here have been hurt by unintentional low oil levels that resulted from a little bit of inattention combined with the use of the Suzuki vertical oil check method. When I did vertical, I carried a quart of oil with me on any sort of trip and I had to use it several times ... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/10/11 at 10:16:04 What's your definition of low (mortal)? Half the glass, low mark or below that when checked cold and vertical? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Sunchasers on 08/10/11 at 10:35:41 Just curious... do any of the SS people check the oil on their 4-wheel type vehicles on an incline or decline?? :-? I have no strong opinion either way, SS or vertical. Actually use both methods off and on, but predominantly use vertical. :) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by rl153 on 08/10/11 at 10:50:25 OF ,I rechecked my oil with the hot test. I wasn't completly level the first time ,but this time I tried putting a level on the starter ,which is a great idea that someone here had. This time with the high idle ,there was a bubble of air in the top 1/4 of the glass ,but on low idle the glass is still full of oil . I've gone about 500 miles with the oil this way ,and I just checked my drain plug , there was around a teaspoon of oil in it.My garage floor is basically level for the side stand method ,but I couldn't be sure if the previous owner of the bike transported it the way you mentioned . I'll probably just leave it till the next oil change ,in october ,and then ,refill it with a little less . Thanks for your input. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/10/11 at 11:43:35 Ralfyguy, "Mortal Low" is when you use the vertical method but get real slack about doing the check (or your bike finally starts using oil and you didn't catch that it first started) and when you do do the vertical check you don't see any oil in the window at all. aw shite !! When you do go do the vertical Road Runner check and find you have to add nearly a quart of oil then you have been running at "Mortal Low" levels and have likely been sucking some air at the oil pump when you hit the brakes, etc and rocked the oil mass forward away from the pump intake. ================== Now, why do our bikes just suddenly start using oil? We have had enough instances of pistons getting sudden galling (which puts the rings in a groove bind and causes mild smoking) to say we have that as an occasional issue that we can certainly point at. This is an "any mileage" issue completely apart from the 45,000+ piston slap which is pure and simple wear over time. May I propose a theory for this sudden galling -- Serobot's Theorum, with some practical expansions. Serobot (who has written the definitive Tech Post on the subject) theorizes that: 1/3 of the folks on the list have had a vac petcock go bad on them 1/3 of the folks who are just waiting for it to happen to them, 1/3 of the folks who (because of how little and how slow they ride) may never have it happen to them. They never exceed the vac petcock trickle flow rate. My extension on his theory is simple -- those that ride hardest will have the vac petcock starve their engine at speed and when their float bowl level gets low their mixture leans out which can cause their piston to overheat and gall or to cause rapid piston wear. (or you name the screw up that flows from it, none of them are good news) So, I say sudden onset oil consumption has an assignable cause -- that you had a vac petcock event at speed and "running lean" damaged your engine some. Now, for reluctant confirmation of this theorum, we suggest a person who is a high speed rider, who has two Savages that both became NOTORIOUS oil users, who investigated oils in great detail to see if he could relieve his problems and he freely admits he has had high speed vac petcock episodes before that caused him to replace hoses multiple times and to put rebuild kits into his vac petcocks. Note: he has recently totally rebuilt one of his engines twice and it is currently in great shape. He now has a virgin test bed and as of now he is on alert to this potential oil consumption root cause. Verslagen, when your rebuilt vac petcock craps out on your fresh engine bike for the very first time, keep a lookout for sudden onset oil consumption to follow soon thereafter. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by DrunkenDwarf on 08/10/11 at 21:51:41 0F2C2426252C2C2532400 wrote:
When cold and on the side stand, it's just below the sight glass. When hot and vertical (approximated), it's just at the top of the sight glass. Some bubbles, but no froth. -D. Dwarf |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/11/11 at 04:36:55 51585D544E595D3C0 wrote:
When cold and on the side stand, it's just below the sight glass. When hot and vertical (approximated), it's just at the top of the sight glass. Some bubbles, but no froth. -D. Dwarf [/quote] See, now I'm confused again... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/11/11 at 04:51:03 Only those who can understand the method should be trying to using it -- but it isn't rocket science, it is fairly easy if you actually try to do it. We'll all talk you through it, Ralfyguy First step is to find the spot where you always park your bike -- can you see the side window from that spot (enough light, etc). Turn your handle bars the way you always leave them when you get off the bike, everything same same. Now fill your oil up until the oil just peeps over the bottom edge of the oil window. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/11/11 at 06:23:52 0E2D2527242D2D2433410 wrote:
Done this way on a standard bike, I can almost garanteee no problem. But I believe a big problem could be,....what is standard ? Anyone that can put a 4x4 under the side stand and not have the bike fall over, all guarantees are OFF. Those bikes are going to have more oil in them. A bent SS or an over size rear tire could make a difference in more oil to peek the sight glass. This just may be the reason Suzuski (maybe others) chose to use the (not so stupid) vertical method. The only sure way is to know what works on "your bike" (hot test?) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/11/11 at 16:10:40 Ralfyguy, Why are you confused? You see a fellow rider who has competed his side stand HOT TEST analysis on his own bike and He Understands How It Works. Your first step is to find your spot and set your oil level -- your second step is to do the HOT TEST to verify your chosen level poses no issues for you or your bike. Having done this, you can be a happy and secure side stander who, if he bends on his side stand swing arm any knows enough now to repeat his side stand test to make sure he has stayed nice and safe. ============== Now, Drunken -- if you glued a side stand puck (a pavement penetration protector) to the bottom of your side stand foot you would pick up HOT TEST clearance off its thickness on about a 1:1 ratio from what you have told us so far. Pavement penetration is bad, right? A wee little extra bit of oil clearance is good, right? Two goods make a double Woopieee !! last time I checked anyway ..... My side stand puck is a 4" long, 1" wide, 1/2" thick super magnet that I use to trip stop light sensors -- so mine is a triple good Woopie !!! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 04:50:34 Well what confuses me is that the suggestion is to fill the oil to the bottom of the glass when on the SS. This should result in a no more than half a glass full of oil when idling hot and the bike held upright. Turns out that there is a few fellow riders that stated when the cold fill their bike to the bottom of the glass on the SS as suggested, theirs shows the glass almost full or full completely with a few bubbles when doing the upright hot idle. So the suggestion also was that this is too much oil, as it isn't supposed to be more than half full then. So these people should not cold fill to the bottom of the glass, because the hot idle test shows too much oil on their bikes. That is what confuses me. On my bike it's filled to the top mark when held level and on hot idle the level shows close to half the glass. Putting my bike on the SS and checking when cold, there is no oil in the glass. This is done all in the same parking spot. So my hot idle is about what it is suggested to be. But no oil visible in the glass when cold and on SS. So on m bike I should not put more oil in to make it visible then, because it might show overfilled when doing the hot idle test right? ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Routy on 08/12/11 at 05:22:10 You are so right on all counts. As I said before, if that is the case, there is no point in all this BS SS stuff ! But,......who is qualified to determine what "overfilled" is ?? Just because OF says it, doesn't make it gospel. And I for one don't believe it, only because I have proved it not to be true. Even the talk of bikes spitting oil seems to have come from no where, because I haven't read of even one case of it happening. Maybe I missed it. If filling to the low line on the side stand works on my "standard" bike, then it should work on all "standard" bikes. That is why I put up the poll,...to determine which bikes are standard. But if you are like most the others....as the poll shows, and don't care,....and are afraid to try the "low line SS fill" method, then forget the whole "SS check" thing. I myself think this whole SS thing has gotten blown way out of porportion. It works great for me, and anymore, thats all I care ::) I'm outta here ! |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/12/11 at 05:28:47 All oil is checked cold,Thats the way it is,Don't worry were the oil is when hot,I think the Japs figured out that stuff years ago. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/12/11 at 06:44:30 Ralfyguy has just now rediscovered the points made two side stand wars back that caused the HOT CHECK to come into being -- oil expands, our bikes are different from each other and the side stands are not at the same angle. Welcome to 3 months ago, you are finally catching up with the discussion. And yes, Ralfyguy, ideally you might want half a glass empty on a hot test but trouble doesn't start until a full glass is seen -- you need to get that particular point right or else you are just lobbing hand grenades into the discussion (which in a side stand war is normal enough behavior , but the other folks simply need to recognize what that smoking knobby oval form means when it lands at their feet). Routy is upset that I take conservative positions on these things, this one being that logically, you don't want your oil level getting up into your crank space above the oil shelf. You can get away with it short term, we all do each time we hit the brakes going down hill -- but conservatively you don't want to do it all the time. Another conservative point that Routy may not like -- once the oil is over the window in the hot test you simply don't know how high it really goes. Over the window is "unmonitored territory". Now, the fact nobody is seeing copious amounts of oil in their air boxes does tend to support Routy's position that this may not be harmful, but I still can't recommend people going past a full window on a hot test -- jest can't do it. Conservative, you know. =============== What is a list member to do? If you want to side stand, do the Hot Test once on your bike to see what the angle of your side stand combined with the expansion rate of your favorite oil really really does. Two folks have seen that they shouldn't side stand on their bikes out of the dozen or so who are currently doing it. heck if somebody wasn't going to fail the test why would we be saying you need to do it .... Interesting point discovered this time around the barn, if you added a side stand puck to your side stand (something the folks down South need in the asphalt softening hot summer months anyway) you would pick up some hot test clearance. ::) Jest think of it as carrying your wooden block around with you all the time .... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 07:42:54 Well as a natural born German, my English might be just insufficient to fully understand the discussions. So since I also don't like to participate in wars, I should just keep to myself and just read. I'm not particularly a grenade launcher either. So far my bike is doing ok, so it can't all be wrong how I treat it. :) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/12/11 at 08:02:58 5E4D404A554B59552C0 wrote:
Yes, these bikes sure can take a lot of abuse, eh? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by SoE on 08/12/11 at 08:10:56 "My side stand puck is a 4" long, 1" wide, 1/2" thick super magnet that I use to trip stop light sensors" That is awesome. Can you post a pic of that, or point to one? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 08:52:33 556B607D707D70120 wrote:
Yes, these bikes sure can take a lot of abuse, eh? [/quote] Why you mean I abuse mine? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/12/11 at 09:04:37 SoE, http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/hammerfar.jpg |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/12/11 at 11:58:41 40535E544B55474B320 wrote:
Yes, these bikes sure can take a lot of abuse, eh? [/quote] Why you mean I abuse mine?[/quote] I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you abuse your bike? Or are you saying you think I think you abuse your bike? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 12:50:02 It sounded like that you might think I abuse mine. I bought my '06 three years ago with 3,000 miles on it. It has now 16,000 on it and it runs better than ever. It uses 1/2pt of Rotella T6 over 1,500 miles and most of those miles are superslab 75+ mph most of the time. And the summers in Oklahoma are hot. She's strong enough to get up to highway speeds even with my wife on the back. Strong enough that on acceleration the 100lbs more are hardly making a difference. So I think the bike is still in great shape. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/12/11 at 13:13:11 5C4F424857495B572E0 wrote:
Sounds typical of this bike. They are great machines, eh? Glad you are having a good time with it. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by bill67 on 08/12/11 at 13:35:51 73606D6778667478010 wrote:
It seems like every one using Rotendella oil burns a lot of oil.Your not getting a good ring to cylinder seal.Rotendella oil is for engines that use diesel fuel for help in lubrication. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 14:00:55 754B405D505D50320 wrote:
Sounds typical of this bike. They are great machines, eh? Glad you are having a good time with it.[/quote] Oh yeah, absolutely. I love that fact that people laughing about and asking if it is a 125 or 250 and if it is a half a girl Harley and you tell them it is a 650 and they laugh even harder in disbelief. And then yoy out-accelerate them and they chin grinds on the asphalt and the eyes are popping outta their heads. ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/11 at 14:02:32 3A3134346E6F580 wrote:
It seems like every one using Rotendella oil burns a lot of oil.Your not getting a good ring to cylinder seal.Rotendella oil is for engines that use diesel fuel for help in lubrication. [/quote] Yeah I'm pretty positive that the motor is gonna blow soon. ;) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/12/11 at 14:04:49 565D58580203340 wrote:
It seems like every one using Rotendella oil burns a lot of oil.Your not getting a good ring to cylinder seal.Rotendella oil is for engines that use diesel fuel for help in lubrication. [/quote] It's hard to keep up with you and your misstatements, Bill. To top it off, you still won't let us know why a 250 needs different oil than a 650. Would my FJR1300 need yet another type of oil? How about a Triumph Rocket III with 2300cc? How about a 7 liter Boss Hogg? I just have this big void of knowledge about how oil varies with a motor's displacement. Please tell us. How do oil needs change as an engine gets bigger? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/11 at 05:44:37 Wow, is Bill67 really trying to say a 15 liter (15,000cc) diesel engine has higher/tougher oil requirements than a 250cc bike would have? Bill, I am proud of you to be finally admitting that 600 horsepower 15 liter diesel engines running 20:1 compression ratios and using 25 psi turbo boost pressures on top of that with an oil change frequency of 80,000 to 100,000 miles requires a better oil than say, a 250 two stroke running Klotz (one engine cycle of 2 strokes and the Klotz oil is outta there making some nasty spooge in the exhaust pipe). You have really come a long way towards overcoming your various red stuff addictions. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/13/11 at 06:19:52 And it goes on and on.......vertical cold, vertical hot, SS cold, SS hot, SS with or without a block of whatever, level surface, level on the starter, 2.2 qts., 2 1/2 qts., Rotella, dino, Klotz, blowby, blow ME. WTF, does anybody just ride the dam thing anymore? I wish all I had to worry about was the oil level, and the "correct" procedure for checking it. You all got your pantyhose in a bunch about it. I have a bike with a hole punched in the bottom of the motor. I have belt noise (I suspect) and other various noises. I have dents in my gastank. I have a starter that won't stop spinning. I tell ya what....anybody here wanna trade me--even up--for a bike that runs? I'll go ride and let you all sit here and debate oil. And Gyrobob, 2 weeks ago I was 20 posts ahead of you. How in the hell are you 88 posts ahead of me now? (just wondering) Like I said, does anybody actually ride their bikes any more? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/11 at 07:51:43 Drums is getting him some "ride withdrawal syndrome" it sounds like. I get to ride mine about every day of the week less the one rainy day per week and that is generally either morning or afternoon only. Mine runs good jest about all the time, with my only downtime coming from the occasional parking lot attacks from cagers or me doing a towing ooopsie from trying to develop new methods of hauling it up to the mountains. My biggest problem lately is getting vacation time to go up to the mountains (and when I do get vacation time it seems to rain up in them there same durn mountains). ;D Should my bike decide not run good, I do gots me an entire spare motor (complete with starter motor) to plug into place to keep me up and riding should I have to be playing with a sick motor. Heck, I used to keep an entire spare motorcycle, but that wasn't getting ridden very much so I sold it this spring for a profit, so now I am down to just the Savage and the backup motor. ::) Drums, is any of this making you feel any better? I could lend you my little Bill hand puppet and you could abuse him a bit if it would make you feel any better (he squeals real good when you put him on with cold hands first thing in the morning he does). Jest rub you a little Klotz on your hand and your nobby ol' wrist bone, he seems to like it better slickied up with a little bit of Klotz. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/13/11 at 08:00:55 Spare motor? You ARE the lucky one, OF. Do I feel any better? No. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/11 at 08:20:46 Drums, is there any particular reason you are standing out in the middle of the mine field again (the one out in front of the pillboxes and mortar emplacements on all three sides) all by yourself yet again? The first time I found you out there I thought you had gotten lost and wound up standing out there by accident. That was two oil wars and a side stand war ago .... and you were saying all the machine gun fire was being all "impolite and mean" as I remember. You wanted me to "be nice" -- so I gave Bill 3 free passes in a row. Now here we are again, you want me to let you hold the hand puppet now? Stop all the puppet abuse, is that what would make you happy? Not practice war no more? Ok, you give me the bunch of flowers and I'll give you the hand puppet and we will each walk off very carefully trying not to step on any of the landmines on the way out .... ;D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/13/11 at 08:44:28 No particular reason, other than the fact that I felt like venting a little, and it seemed such a pleasant place to do so. And I don't recall ever mentioning bill67. It just seemed to me, as I have followed this thread with glee, that certain people, who will, at this time, remain nameless, seem to spend more time here debating, than they do riding. I, for one, have no choice. Unless I want to ride around with my starter spinning freely. (I haven't got out there to investigate the problem yet, as I have no ohmeter or voltmeter) To be honest, I'm not quite sure where the decomp controller mounts, much less what it looks like. But for those of you with actual running bikes.....I'd sacrifice a left nut just to go for a ride, worry free, for a change. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Serowbot on 08/13/11 at 09:15:43 What?... I only have 9,000 posts.... ;D... Sounds like a lot,... but it's only 4 or 5 a day,... and half of them are stupid, so they don't take very long........... :-?... Sometimes,... guiding a noob,... takes 10 or more posts in one shot... PS... the decomp,... looks like a hockey puck, it's under the tank, on the right side... ;)... PSS,... okay,... I'm a little embarrassed at having so many posts... :-?... You guys really should post more,... to make me feel better... ;D ;D ;D.... |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/13/11 at 09:40:05 5C4A4D554B09380 wrote:
Because I post lots of posts like this one. :D |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by arteacher on 08/13/11 at 09:42:26 Post war...post war...post war... ;D ;D ;D Why in the hell would anyone worry about how many posts they or anyone else has? :-? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/13/11 at 09:55:02 2F24242D212E2F3534400 wrote:
Haven't you ever heard of FAS? ::) |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/13/11 at 10:06:24 Mission accomplished. I have stirred the soup. (hehe) I don't really care, I just mentioned it because I happened to notice, because I see his name a LOT. Gyrobob----FAS? No, I haven't? [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Gyrobob on 08/13/11 at 10:27:18 2D26262F232C2D3736420 wrote:
2432352D3371400 wrote:
FAS = forum addiction syndrome FAS sometimes causes us to spend WWWAAAAYYYY more time on the computer than we should. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by drums1 on 08/13/11 at 10:37:36 Gotcha. I must admit that I, too, suffer from a mild, yet dibilitating form of this henious disease. I am in ongoing recovery. |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/11 at 12:25:39 Well, I got so bored I jest went and bought a full automatic Co2 BB machine gun, so during the next war I can shoot youse people "nicer" than I used to do using the browning or the vickers. But since it is totally hand portable, I'm gonna put a red dot pistol sight on it so I can track running targets better .... (me running or you running, it's the same difference). fizt fizt fizt fizt fizt fizt ...... fizt fizt fizt fizt fizt fizt ..... ouchie ouchie ouchie ouchie !!!! ;D [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnhuMek9S5g[/media] http://airgunner.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Umarex-Steel-Storm.jpg |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by SoE on 08/17/11 at 06:34:47 7D5E5654575E5E5740320 wrote:
So, do you have to drop the stand at the stop in order to make it trip the sensor? |
|
Title: Re: side stand oil method Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/11 at 09:21:32 On the very most stubborn light switches I used to put it down on the epoxy filler that is over the loop itself and create "motion" by raising and lowering the magnet by rocking the bike. On most of them the raised position is enough, although I did used to try to run across the corner of the epoxy square on purpose to give it more signal. Now since NC has passed the "left turn on red" law for motorcycles, I don't have to use it very much anymore -- I just stop look and GO. The magnet picks up road junk all the time, small screws and nails and little rusty metal filings. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |