Lupo, KimKris, does separating out ALL the political religious and interpersonal jousting and rowdy stuff to a separate forum not fix your issue?

Then you have a place to have a PG Cafe and have a truly civilized conversation where you could dial in from work and not get hit by ugly green frog holding his wanker?   (yep, me too -- my bad)

If we had the separate forum where we could move all the rowdy stuff (including the Tail of the Dragon trip) and leave Cafe to be a Cafe, wouldn't that give you the separation you are seeking?

What would be the rules for such a Cellar or SpeakEasy or Back Room or whatever you choose to call it?

Or being a completely separate place and "you go there at your own risk" would it require any rules other than maybe NO PERSONAL ATTACKS?

Seriously, this sounds like the best way to give everybody what they want.  

You got civilized folk who want to talk non-motorcycle stuff about grandkids, vacation trips, scavenger hunts, etc.   This is a gentle minded crew of folks who want an open but nice Cafe.

You got rowdy folks who want to talk about Dragon Trips, argue over politics, try to convert other folks to their non-religionousness, etc.   This is a generally rougher crew of folks who could populate a small forum.

Trying to keep them ALL TOGETHER in the same bucket is a built in conflict, no joke.


and I will point out that we already have two lists available and could create more if needed -- Boule or JohnH both know how.   We could have a sane list and a rowdy list complete if need be (maybe excepting Tech section as it really isn't moveable and it is a time consuming thing to keep organized)

I talk lots of trash out in the shop,..
Shop Talk?

Bill, I don't think your one liner hand grenades would be limited all that much in either setting, some are so subtle that you need a current dictionary of urban slang to figure out what the dig was ....  the rest are jest funny.

Yes it has been relatively civil, and if folks would just PM the moderators with each problem they have AND BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT REALLY GRIPED THEM then maybe we wouldn't be running around chasing "non-motorcycle related" offenses.

In my mind, the big four no-nos are Personal Attacks, Religious Hijacking, Political Hijacking, XX-Rated Materials.  

If we reported any issues according to these terms the moderators wouldn't have to use their naturally faulty telepathy trying to translate your gripes.

It would also give the moderators an impartial handle on encouraging behavior modification by the folks needing that help.

if i go to a cafe or public house and dont like the crowd/topics/ambiance i dont go back...
youll rarely see me at the tall table  

And those who go swimming in the shark tank and get bit will learn to stay out of their silly holding pool.

By the same token, bad things that exit the Shark Pool need to be trimmed on sight or if it is a whole thread moved as a whole back into the pool.


===========================


If we do this new section, do you think we need to be stricter about enforcing the general list rules about no Personal Attacks, no Religious Hijacking, no Political Hijacking, no XX-Rated Materials type offenses that occur outside of the Shark Tank?  

Seriously, our real reported issues are people doing these sorts of things outside in the PG rated portions of the list and inside other people's threads, not inside the restricted (and appropriate) areas.

If say, YYYYYYY PMs me that xxxxxx posted a personal attack against her in Rubber Side Down and it verifies as correct, what should happen to xxxxxx?  

Remember, if there are no consequences no changes to errant behavior will actually take place.

I think an additional section of the forum for things that most people don't want to discuss or watch being discussed (ad nauseum) is a good idea. And the old "if you don't like sand in your shorts, stay out of the sand (litter) box" would seem to apply. In other words, don't complain about what goes on in the new section - if you don't like it stay out. Anything that spills out of the litterbox needs to be put back or cleaned up so that the rest of the members don't need to see it.

I would say repeat offenders would have to be dealt with, however, I would say that for some time most threads in the forum seem to have been without the type of offenses that have caused me to leave for a while in the past (and then obviously return). Maybe that is because they are at the tall table. The forum has it's trolls (and would probably be better off without them), but I think most people have figured out to ignore them. They seem to be one of the inescapable results of the anonymity of the internet; so to completely eliminate them from this forum is probably either impossible or not worth anyone's time.