Ask the Suzuki Salesman -- our official source for the screw-uppedness.

Heck, don't ask me -- I ignore the other two as unnecessary and use the oil window in a way that works better (and hits pretty close to the 2.5 quarts mentioned in the owners manual).

I'm the official thought provoker in this war and the question on the table is "which item is wrong"?

Charon says the oil window and the other windows aren't screwed up, they are what they are.

So it gets down to -- what is the answer the question on the table.

Back to the question on the table -- which one is the Suzuki/Clymer goof this time?   The amount of oil or the inspection method?


One of them has to be listed on the master Clymer's Goof Listing in Tech Section ....

Which one shall it be ?

Our oil gauge is a lot better than our gas gauge... ...

It is easy to say "..only an idiot woud design that method of checking oil." Perhaps it isn't so easy to design a better system. Remember, of course, that cost is always an issue. The ideal would be to put the sight glass on the centerline of the bike, so it would always read correctly whether the bike was level or not. But that puts it either on the front subject to rocks from the front tire, or on the rear where it would be impossible to see. A dipstick is another nice choice, but runs into the same problems of levelling the bike. My old Twinstar had a dipstick. Checking the oil required removing the dipstick and wiping it clean, holding the bike level and reinserting the dipstick, then removing the dipstick and trying to see where the oil line really was (difficult with clean oil). If the dipstick were on centerline, where it needs to be, it becomes difficult to access.

I think the best solution is a center stand. Then, either a dipstick or a sight glass becomes easy. My 2007 250 Ninja has a center stand - but Kawasaki removed the center stand from newer ones. My '83 Suzuki Tempter had a center stand and sight glass. Those of us who buy bikes without a center stand generate many of our own problems.

It is easy for us to nitpick and gripe about how poorly designed things are. It is not so easy to redesign them.

If you had a dip stick to check the oil every time you wipe it of to check you waste oil and good oil aint cheap.

Rokrover brings up the point of whupping up excess oil and making froth which is a reasonable enough concern based upon machinery in general.  

The concern really doesn't apply to us Savagers and these are the reasons why.

The Savage has an oil shelf that is integral to the cases that encloses the crankshaft to protect it from oil splash from the gear case.  This shelf is just above the oil window, so you will know its location.  The main oil gallery run is part of the web structure, so you can place it that way as well.   So, no frothing from crank hitting anything.  Ditto for the countershaft -- it also is enclosed and is much higher up, on top of the crank to the front of the engine.

The gear clusters are in line horizontally with the crank shaft (which is centered 2.75 inches over the oil shelf) and the gear clusters aren't as big as the crank counterweight which is pretty large.  There is no shelf under the gear clusters, but since they are up out of the oil, it likely isn't needed as the gears would probably like an occasional splash or two of oil.

Next, the oil level drops down WELL BELOW THE WINDOW when you crank up the bike.   The missing oil goes into circulation in the galleries, the barrel and head oil passages, the head bath and also we have enforced circulation inside all the hollow parts of the gear shafts and inside the large oil passages integral to that big crankshaft (yup, our crank assembly carries pressurized oil all the time).  

This is true even when you use the full 2.5 quarts by using the sidestand check method, the oil immediately drops way below the window -- so it is like 1.5-2.0 inches below the oil shelf and about 2.5-3.0 inches away from the largest gear cluster.

I don't think oil frothing is a big issue, I certainly haven't noticed any froth or bubbling in the oil window after running the bike.  I do notice the window stays pretty much empty for about the first 2-5 seconds after you cut the bike off but the oil comes back down from the top end pretty quickly after that and the window fills back up.

Increased oil consumption -- nope, I haven't noted any.  I didn't start using the trick until I already had some oil consumption so I will rely on others to more completely answer that question.  

Currently there are 25 people on the list using the 2.5 quart side stand check method and so far no one has reported any increased oil consumption or frothing.  This is not an isolated trick, all these 25 people have watched the side stand oil drop down out of sight when the bike was cranked and all of them are aware of how much oil their bike uses and would be aware of any extra usage or frothing.

And some of them are just doing it to catch me being wrong, so they are the very very best witnesses for any frothing or oil consumption.  





=======================



And then there is Ed.    

Ed runs a large oil cooler that is only pumped full of oil when the bike is running.   Ed sets his oil level to peep at the bottom of the window while the bike is held upright and is running at idle (after a few throttle blips to get it all up into the oil cooler that is).  He runs his oil level about 0.75 - 1.0 inch below the oil shelf while the bike is running.

Ed runs the highest oil level of any of us as there is at least a quart of oil up in that oil cooler that comes back down each time when he shuts the bike off.   Mebbe he can shed some light on oil frothing or oil consumption as he has jest got to have him some crank and gear cluster oil contact when he first starts up the bike.   I mean -- jest gotta be happening, big time.

Yeah, oil has improved a whole lot since then.

If you use one of the Rotella family of oils you would likely have to work real real hard to get it to foam or froth since it was designed specifically to not do any of that sort of garbage.

But we got 25 people using different oils, so let's see what they have to say about it.

Remember, every one of us who changed over was a "Doubting Thomas" when we first did it and we all LOOKED HARD for this sorta stuff when we first did it ....


http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1283793450/26#26

OF,
Quit pretending you don't know !

Where'd that poll go that had to do w/ this ?
Seems like that answered it.

Thinking back, when I bought my '07 used,.....and from a dealer, the oil was between the lines when on the stand. I thought that was normal, so did they I'd guess. But my brother....who has an '07 also, like'ta had heart failure over it, showed me the book. So like an idiot, I changed oil, and filled and checked like the book. But after my bike fell over while checking the oil the book way, (rolled forward off the stand when letting it back down) thats when (a year+ ago) I brought this up here. And it has been in controversy ever since. In the meantime, I realized that the previous owners mamma didn't raise no dummy, and checking oil is no longer an issue for me.