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Question: Have you found any issues with overfilling?

No, so far so good
Yes, I posted my issues below
I'm neutral but want to see results


« Last Modified by: Oldfeller on: 11/01/10 at 17:56:42 »

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Side stand oil checking method (Read 1438 times)
Oldfeller
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Side stand oil checking method
09/06/10 at 10:17:30
 

There is a poll attached to this first post.

Please only vote if you are an "overfiller"  --  that way we can see how many members are now overfilling intentionally.


================================



This is a good trick, really.

Now if you are afeared of "overfilling" -- do this little drill for me just one time.

Put it on the side stand the way you always leave it when you put it up for the night.

STONE COLD, fill it up until it jest barely peeks into view in the oil fill window ...

.... now ask you wife to come hold it completely upright and keep it there for you.


                              ! gasp !

                         Aaaaaugh !!

       the oil window is completely dark with oil

             I am overfilled, drastically !!



.... take a deep breath and trust in the Force, young Jedi

While the wife hold the bike upright, crank it while watching the oil window.

As soon as the bike cranks over the oil level drops to way way below the oil window.

Where did it all go?   Into circulation in the oil passages, the transmission, etc. etc.


----------------------------------------------------------


Next thing you need to know is that there is an oil splash shelf in the crankcase right over the top of the oil window that protects the crank from oil down in the sump splashing around during braking, cornering, hills etc.

So, what are the downsides to slightly over filling your bike so you can instantly see if you have "enough oil" just by glancing down at it while it is on the kickstand?

Dunno.   Haven't found any yet, personally.  
Got some other people helping me look fer them now, so if they exist we will find them.

I do like instant easy visible checks and I do like it that when I can see no oil in the window on the sidestand due to usage I can rock the bike to vertical and verify that I AM NOT LOW ON OIL to Suzuki's methodology.
 
I have lots of time to get her home and top her on up to my methodology -- you see, I pretty much know I will never run short on oil and kill my engine using my method.


Unfortunately, Suzuki's methodology has killed a lot of engines over the years due to low oil.

There isn't much reserve to Suzuki's method and a long trip (or a little bit of slackness) can run you too low, especially when your bike gets up there in mileage and starts using some oil routinely.





===========================================
===========================================



...... this important test was added after all the oil window wars were over and additional testing hot methods were developed.   Do remember to do this to YOUR bike to verify your oil's expansion ratio when very hot.



WARNING NOTICE !!


Out of the window war and related side wars has come an important hot test to perform on your particular bike after you have picked your side stand oil in the window level.

The test is simple, after picking your handlebar alignment and resting condition, put your oil level stone cold where you want it to be for easy visibility.

Then ON A LEVEL SURFACE crank your fresh hot from a ride bike up, get it to a good idling rate (at least 1,000 rpm) and get somebody else to hold it straight upright while you shine a flashlight into the oil window with the bike running at idle.

Ideally,  you would like to see an empty window -- but many do not.    
If you see more than half a sight glass on this hot run test, then you need to take out some oil !!

You know the window empties completely when you crank it cold, cause you have already done this test with the bike stone cold.   What has changed is that your oil went from garage cold to engine hot -- oil expands when hot to the formula 0.0004 / degree F, so for a 300 degree F delta-T you get like a 10-12.0% change in volume.

10-12% is a significant enough change in oil volume for you to do the check again when the engine is full from just running hot.

On my bike I get just under half a window held upright when hot idling when I set the oil level to half a window on the sidestand with everything stone cold.  I am lucky, what I see stone cold on the side stand is just about what I see on the hot held vertical test.  You likely are not that lucky .....

You can't ASSume this works out this way for you, your garage isn't at the same degree of level as mine (mine isn't perfectly level) and my side stand is slightly bent and I use a sidestand adder magnet on the foot of my side stand and my oil expands like RotSyn expands (your oil likely expands differently).  

You have to check your own situation to find out your hot expansion truth.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you see a full oil window when idling a fully hot engine held bolt upright.
 
This would put you in danger of splashing oil with your crankshaft.  You need a half window or more of oil clearance to the crank splash shelf with your worst cast oil expansion due to hot engine temperatures -- a full window of clearance is of course the "optimum desired" amount but many do not get this on the hot test.



Now if this last bit seems out of kilter and "huh?" to you, it is because it was developed at the end of the thread that followed the thread that followed this one -- read your homework and it will make perfect sense to you
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« Last Edit: 12/08/12 at 12:57:31 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Ed L.
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #1 - 09/06/10 at 18:26:38
 
Been "overfilling" my '02 for years. If you can just see the oil in the site glass while the bike is running and on the kick stand it's just right. We all know what happens when you really overfill the crankcase Wink
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #2 - 09/06/10 at 20:40:01
 

Ed goes a degree past the rest of us because he has a big oil cooler set up on his bike that requires the oil level to be set with the engine running (that cooler holds a lot of oil that only goes up into the cooler when the engine is running).

I can attest when Ed's bike goes too far on the oil level his oil pukes out the head tube and into the air box and the bike become a major skeeter fogger and free oil flies out of the air box all over everything.

Including the bikes following him   Grin

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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #3 - 09/06/10 at 22:24:45
 
When I got my bike 1 1/2 yrs ago, first thing I noticed no dipstick. Then I found the little window, and noticed the level near the top line,....and that was on the side stand, which I thought was normal.
Then I learned the God awful correct way to check the oil.
Long story short, I learned that the guy I bought my bike from, may not have known the correct way to check the oil, but he wasn't stupid !
So after feeling it out for a long while, I now run the oil anywhere between the 2 lines, and on the side stand. And it don't leak or burn 1 drop !
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #4 - 09/11/10 at 11:09:01
 
A sidecar keeps the bike level while checking the oil.  Put one on and you will never again have the problem.  You merely stand on your head to check the oil.

or cheat and use a mirror

Phelonius
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #5 - 09/12/10 at 02:13:15
 
Routy,

If I am going on a long trip and do not want to carry a spare quart with me to top off with I will do like you do -- put it midway in the window when on the side stand.  

I knew by the time I got back home I'd be right again, or else maybe even have to add a smidgen.

But I also knew that at NO TIME was I ever going to be low on oil compared to the Suzuki method (and my bike was never at risk).
 

Grin   Grin   Grin


Yup, ya gotta intentionally do some things like this once you get up there in mileage into the oil using stages of things ...
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #6 - 09/15/10 at 22:00:52
 
OF,
I went by the rules and kept my oil between the lines when I first got my bike and ran $6.00/qt oil. It was synthetic and used some when I ran superslab a lot. Now I use Rotella Dino and can't get it to use any more than about 2 ounces in 1000 miles. I read somebody recommended using a mirror, so I have a mechanic's mirror layng on a shelf where I park. I always lock my forks, so I just put my long handled mirror by the sight glass and give a jerk on the bars till it just about balances. If it is from 1/2 or above in the window in a cold engine I unlock the forks, kick the tires and fire her up. I fill it to the top of the window standing up straight during oil change. No problems and airbox is clean, but tube will put out about tablespoon of gunk at oil change.  
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #7 - 09/15/10 at 22:56:45
 
Boofer,

When your bike is new like and uses no oil, you can follow the Suzuki rules fairly easily (I did back then too).

When you get up into the steady small consumption mileage zone and are using a part of a quart every now and again (especially when taking a trip of any distance) -- I betcha you'll hit a spot where you might say to yourself ....

"Durn, I let ol' Betsy get pretty low on that one -- wonder if I might of hurt her or something running her that low on oil"?

That's when you'll remember this trick.   It is a right good trick for a slightly older Savage engine what uses a sip or two of the slippery stuff between them oil changes.
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #8 - 09/16/10 at 04:56:48
 
OOPS.Posted my vote wrong,duh.After reading this I am now "overfilling" it.I have the dreaded plug/cap leak and it seems like everytime I ride it hard,I'm out of oil.I was in a jam this weekend,and used Rotella 15w40 in it too.We'll see how that works.I usually run Bel-Ray 20w50.
     NO NOT ANOTHER OIL DEBATE! Grin
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #9 - 09/16/10 at 16:24:37
 
Go up to the poll notation at the top of the page on the post you voted on and delete your vote and on a later post recast it correctly.   You can correct your vote for like two days if you screw up on one of these polls, you just have to do it from the post you cast it on.

BTW, this feature still only lets you vote once, but you can fix a goof.


Also, we do oil wars in Rubber Side Down, not in the Tech Section -- too messy.
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #10 - 09/18/10 at 09:49:46
 
I didn't vote, because I don't overfill. But I would like to have some way to see the results.

I check the oil in the approved Suzuki manner. I take hold of the throttle and front brake (so the bike cannot roll) with my right hand, then pull the bike toward me until it seems balanced. Given adequate ambient light, I can then see the window with little difficulty, though bending over a little helps.

I used to have a Honda Twinstar, which has a dipstick instead of the little window. It wasn't any easier with the dipstick, because the bike still had to be held "level" for the check. You had to remove and wipe the dipstick, level the bike, insert and remove the dipstick while holding the bike level, then read the results.
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Eschew obfuscation.

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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #11 - 09/18/10 at 11:04:58
 

Poll now includes a neutral light so you can vote and then see the results
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #12 - 09/25/10 at 19:37:10
 
Voted 'neutral' to see the results. I like easy. I'm converting to the overfill-to-bottom-of-sight-glass-on-sidestand sect. Is there a baptism involved?
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #13 - 09/29/10 at 07:29:22
 
OK. I did the Suzuki thing when changing oil for the first time on a bike with 2200 miles on it. The book said 2.1 quarts in when you are changing the filter. I thought 2 quarts would probably do it. It did, and immediately after putting the oil in and idling for a bit, the sight gauge showed between 2/3 and 3/4 of the way to the top line, measured while my trembling wife was holding Suzy vertical. Then I took it for a ride. When I came back, the sight glass showed all but a little bit completely full, that is ... over the top line, when measured vertical. I drained it for about a half hour when making the change, but I guess there was either oil in there somewhere, or that sight glass and the manual are completely bogus. Lil Suzy doesn't seem to be throwing any oil. I dunno. I never intentionally put too much oil into an engine, but in the case of the S40, I am not sure how much is too much. Any good intel on what happened here?
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #14 - 09/30/10 at 11:30:56
 
If I want to use the overfill methodology, do I do as follows?

Place bike on kickstand on level ground.
Turn handlebars to left
Fill until I see oil in the view port.

Do I stop filling immediately as I see oil in the port while on the stand? Just curious how much oil I want 'peeking' out.
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