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Question: Have you found any issues with overfilling?

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« Last Modified by: Oldfeller--FSO on: 11/01/10 at 17:56:42 »

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Side stand oil checking method (Read 1484 times)
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #15 - 09/30/10 at 11:49:09
 
just enough to notice. Stop filling when you seen the oil peek up at the bottom of the window
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Re: OVERFILLING--Only vote if you are an
Reply #16 - 11/01/10 at 03:55:26
 

J2, oil expands like 10-12% from cold to hot -- that explains your window change.   I always check mine cold for that very reason.


====================================


This topic generated an "oil window war" because of a newbie's innocent question.

The points raised are fairly interesting and you folks are the expert witnesses because you have the first hand knowledge that some of these debaters lack.

Have fun (assuming the war is still going on when you get here)


The very first Oil Window Level War

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288398790

Grin

and here is the subsequent Oil Change Method War that came from that one.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1289178835

enjoy !!



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WARNING NOTICE !!


Out of the window war and related side wars has come an important hot test to perform on your particular bike after you have picked your side stand oil in the window level.

The hot test is simple and only has to be done once, after picking your handlebar alignment and resting condition, put your oil level stone cold where you want it to be for easy side stand walk up visibility.  Then perform the hot test to assure yourself that this side stand oil level is completely safe after your oil is all hot and expanded.

The hot test:

ON A LEVEL SURFACE crank your fresh hot from a ride bike up, get it to a good idling rate (at least 1,000 rpm) and get somebody else to hold it straight upright while you shine a flashlight into the oil window with the bike running at idle.

Ideally,  you would like to see an empty window -- but many do not.    
If you see more than half a sight glass on this hot run test, then you need to take out some oil !!

You know the window empties completely when you crank it cold, cause you have already done this test with the bike stone cold.   What has changed is that your oil went from garage cold to engine hot -- oil expands when hot to the formula 0.0004 / degree F, so for a 250-300 degree F delta-T you get like a 10-12.0% change in volume.

10-12% is a significant enough change in oil volume for you to do the check again when the engine is full from hard running hot.

On my bike I get just under half a window held upright when hot idling when I set the oil level to half a window on the sidestand with everything stone cold.  I am lucky, what I see stone cold on the side stand is just about what I see on the hot held vertical test.  You likely are not that lucky .....

You can't ASSume this hot check oil level works out this way for you, your garage isn't at the same degree of level as mine (mine isn't perfectly level) and my side stand is slightly bent and I use a sidestand adder magnet on the foot of my side stand and my oil expands like RotSyn expands (your oil likely expands slightly differently).  

You have to check your own situation to find out what your hot expansion truth really is.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you see a full oil window when idling a fully hot engine held bolt upright.
 
This would put you in danger of splashing oil with your crankshaft.  You need a half window or more of oil clearance to the crank splash shelf with your worst cast oil expansion due to hot engine temperatures -- a full window of clearance is of course the "optimum desired" amount of clearance but many do not get this optimum level on the hot test due to oil expansion.
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« Last Edit: 11/24/10 at 22:52:33 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #17 - 11/24/10 at 22:46:50
 
 
So your Savage fell over on your head while you were checking your oil window level
while trying to hold your bike all perfectly vertical and perfectly still .....  

Silly Coyote, you should try the List Side Stand check method.
It is much easier to do and is just as "rational" as the Suzuki method
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #18 - 11/29/10 at 11:37:48
 

From the the folks at the endless oil window war, we have a requested data check.   Eyeball the bottom of your air box for any increase in the amount of oil present.   Ditto for the dump tube (the one you open up when you change your oil).

Report what you find here on this thread -- I'm curious too.
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #19 - 12/17/10 at 20:24:32
 
When I fill to the top line using the vertical method, the extra oil will end up in my airbox.

I have a big rear wheel and 11" shocks.

I have found that if I put a brick under the kickstand I can fill to the bottom line.  When held vertical, the oil level is dead center.
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #20 - 12/17/10 at 22:23:55
 

So your entire engine is tilted so strongly "forwards" due to your mods to the point you get oil in your air box using the vertical method?  Wow -- not a typical condition, but wow.

Interesting -- have you ever done the hot check just for the shits and giggles of it just to see what happens?  Oil expansion for you may be worth a lookie-see since you apparently live in a marginal condition even using the vertical method.

Thought for you -- your "forwards tilted" condition gets replicated on normal tired and shocked bikes when we go downhill at a decent slant.  For us it is momentary, for you it is continuous ....  hit the brakes and both conditions will get worse as the oil sloshes forward in the sump.
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #21 - 12/17/10 at 22:54:32
 
The angle is only 1° more, hardly think it makes a difference.
1/2" longer shocks, 1/2" bigger wheel over 58" wheelbase.
And that's before I sit on it.   Shocked  I'll have to check that.
With my shocks, I may sit differently.
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #22 - 01/12/11 at 23:20:06
 
Oldfeller I have a 86 model.

I check my oil with the bike cold on side stand no oil visable in the window glass.
Crank it up get it hot get my wife to hold  it upright i am lucky have very flat and level parking space. Check in the glass and see the oil flowing nicely on the top mark.

Am i doing it right is that the correct level.
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Re: Side stand oil checking method
Reply #23 - 01/13/11 at 08:47:15
 

mmg123,

Let me tell you back what I think you are saying (because I am confused, mostly).

You perform a cold side stand check and see no oil at all in the window.

You perform a hot check and see a window full of oil (and we are talking the real pool -- full solid pool, not just what is running down the window).

If this is right, you have a problem.


Scenario A  

When you see "no oil" on the sidestand it is really full up past the top of the window and, being solid looks like "no oil".   This isn't very likely, since you would have caught that one, so scratch this scenario.

Scenario B

Your oil is frothing or "bulking up" in an unusual fashion which is showing up on your hot test as being almost up there in the crank.  

If you repeat the hot test and still see oil almost up in the crank, I'd remove some oil and go back to the stock Suzuki check method as your bike/your oil has hot test issues that require it.    This one is the more likely of the two scenarios, so if you think this is so take out some oil and go back to the stock check method.

We would like to know what weight and brand of oil you are using as we need to tell others using the same oil there is a potential issue with that brand and type of oil.


Huh


THE HOT TEST HAS PROVEN ITS WORTH AGAIN -- don't jest slam in more oil into your bike without hot testing the effects of your oil brand and weight inside your own personal motorcycle.
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