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So, America is the land of opportunity? (Read 523 times)
Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #15 - 07/09/10 at 06:05:17
 
Even as a die hard conservative, I find it interesting that people wish for a return of the 1950s, but blame big business for our present difficulties.  You can't have it both ways.

I grew up in the 50s, and have fond recollections of the times.  But mine are the recollections of a child, sheltered as all children are who have a normal upbringing.

If you think banks and big business run things now, you have forgotten what it was like in the 50s, when there were no civil rights laws with any teeth, no equal opportunity employment laws at all, now environmental laws, etc..  I remember when newspapers' help wanted ads were divided into "Male Help Wanted" and Female Help Wanted".

At the risk of being called a bigot, which I certainly am not, I see our problems of today directly tied to the fact that we now encourage the  dumbest and least productive among us to vote.  Voting has nothing to do with gender or race, but should have lots to do with whether you are smart enough to find the polling place, and take the effort to get there, without the Acorn bus having to drive you there.

As it now stands, many elections are decided by those who have no stake in the outcome beyond their welfare check.  This applies to whites and minorities.

This "early voting" is stupid.  True absentee voting is OK for those who are actually away from their place of residence on election day.  But otherwise, election day should be election day.  The freedom to vote is worth being inconvenienced a little bit to make it to the polls.  Few people work 14 hours per  day; and here in Ohio, the polls are open from 6:30 AM to nearly 8 PM on election day, so anyone can plan twice a year (primary and general elections) to alter their schedule to get to the polls IF they care enough.  If they don't, to He!! with them.

The other major cause of our present difficulties is illegal immigration, and a Washington culture that won't stop it.  I welcome any legal immigrant, regardless of color or national origin, as almost all of us are the decendants of immigrants.  Since Arizona got fed up and took the lead, see how the howls have arisen form those who think it's unfair.

Anyhow, in the "good old days" that JOG remembers, big business ran the country totally unbridled, except for affairs where unions had some power.  Beyond that, the boardrooms of America ran the show.  Maybe that was better.  At least people with some smarts had the reins.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #16 - 07/09/10 at 06:14:26
 
Voting has nothing to do with how this country is run,congress does what it wants,It doesn't matter what the people want,I'm sure 90% of the American people were against the wars what good did it do.
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #17 - 07/09/10 at 06:27:11
 
Goes so much deeper than that Jerry,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #18 - 07/09/10 at 06:39:36
 
No. JOG, it really doesn't.  While I respect you personally, the conspiracy theorists have been around since the days of the Knights Templar, and have always been just that - theorists.

You just can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want a system that rewards what was rewarded in the 1950s and prior, that's one thing, and it will have the results we had then.  Opporunity and success for those who fit into the mold, which was basically WASP males in those days.

If you want everyone to be taken care of, we're moving to that extreme now.

I favor the middle, perhaps tilted, if it must be titled at all, toward ignoring the lazy and having gov't care only for those poor souls who truly are physically or mentally handicapped, and who therefore, can't help themselves.

But for the druggie hanging out on the street corner, or the one who quits school in the 8th grade to pimp or sell drugs, the sooner he is out of the politcal picture and out of our gov't's concern, the better.

But now we worry over such things as equal rights for queers, and allowing htem to "marry", (yes, I use that word, for that's what they are), passing kids from grade to grade even though they didn't perform because we certainly don't want to offend them by saying, "You failed".

If we got back to a mind set of caring about whether we succeed, and teaching that moral, we might restore a modicum of work ethic and success.  But I fear it'll never be regained as we've just gone too far the other direction to stop the train.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #19 - 07/09/10 at 07:13:23
 
If we got back to a mind set of caring about whether we succeed, and teaching that moral, we might restore a modicum of work ethic and success.  But I fear it'll never be regained as we've just gone too far the other direction to stop the train.  
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Roger that..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #20 - 07/09/10 at 08:08:53
 
Times were much better in the 50s tv stars made 3-4 times what average person made,Now they make a 1000 times,Gov. of California wants his people to work for minimum  wage 7.75 per hour.We come a long way baby,but in the wrong direction.The rich want the rich to get richer and the poor poorer and they will even kill for it.
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #21 - 07/09/10 at 08:35:49
 
OK, Bill - Let's assume you are totally correct.

So let's repeal all laws made since 1959.  This would include all of the civil rights and equal employment laws, all environmental laws.

Let's also go back to the tax laws of 1959 when we had unlimited deductions for "business use" of yachts, country clubs, and business entertainment of any sort.  That sure favored the little guy, didn't it?

Also repeal all of the financial laws that restrict insider trading, allow for corporate oversight, etc.  Bernie Madoff would still be a free man.

Really want to do all of that?

Anyone who seriously thinks that "big business" runs the show today ought to read what it was like in 1959.  Business interests have lost about 90% of the clout that they had 50 years ago, or even in the 1970s.

I'm all for the state workers getting minimum wage for a few months.  Let them live like other working class people do.  Maybe better yet, let's just make sure every one on a highway crew is required to have a shovel in his hand, rather than having 3 of them watching one guy dig.

Since the recession in building hit, building inspectors in my town have so little to do that FOUR of them showed up the other days for a simple framing inspection at one of the few houses under construction.

Heaven forbid that the city would actually lay them off, like a business would.  And, my daughter is the ONLY member of city council opposing a doubling of the city's income tax rates, and giving the city employees a 6% raise across the board.

That's what's wrong.  If we respected business again, like people did in the 50s, instead of deriding business interests, and realized that business is what made America great, maybe we'd get somewhere again.

My mom worked in a small factory as a payroll clerk, and she respected the owner of the place.  She never even used his first name, he was always Mr. Guthrie.  Long after he had retired, he actually came back here from Florida to attend her funeral; yes, the funeral of a payroll clerk.  Would he have done that for someone who hated him? I doubt it.

But all we do now is villify business - oh well, we're getting what we deserve when we elect a Pres. to run this nation who never had a real job, nor even managed a lemonade stand.  Our priorites are just out of whack.  But again, it all goes back to who votes nowadays - those who have no stake in the outcome swing more elections than you can imagine.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #22 - 07/09/10 at 09:18:31
 
I'm all for Congress getting minimal wage,I realize thats more than they a should get for sitting around talking and making poor decisions.I think all of the state workers in California should get a bonus,that would put more money in circulation.
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #23 - 07/09/10 at 09:30:50
 
So let's repeal all laws made since 1959

I stop readin when someone who is clearly intelligent gets completely ridiculous.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #24 - 07/09/10 at 10:48:47
 
JOG -

You quit reading at your own peril, and didn't continue to see how ludicrous that would have been.

Remember your high school literature class - a writing can always begin a paragraph with a statement contrary to the point of the paragraph in order to insert emphasis.  One can do te same in the intro to a complete story.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #25 - 07/09/10 at 11:11:00
 
Awwrite, but the premise seems ludicrous. Ill go forward, not because I expect Il;l agree, but b/c I know youre no dummy.
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #26 - 07/09/10 at 11:15:40
 
The only people I know that can look forward to, or already have a retirement income, other than SSI, are state or federal employees...
That does not bode well for the private sector in the future...

I can't imagine this country 50 years from now,... but when I try, it's not pretty...
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #27 - 07/09/10 at 11:22:08
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 07/09/10 at 08:35:49:
OK, Bill - Let's assume you are totally correct.

So let's repeal all laws made since 1959.  This would include all of the civil rights and equal employment laws, all environmental laws.

There could be some of that stuff lost at no detriment to society, IMO.



Let's also go back to the tax laws of 1959 when we had unlimited deductions for "business use" of yachts, country clubs, and business entertainment of any sort.  That sure favored the little guy, didn't it?



That there was a time when corpoprations had a clear "subsidy" at the cost of the avg. guy is a given. To believe that seeing that swept away w/o more stuff given them that we arent so privvy to may be a bit myopic, based on the way I see the regulators regulating those companies.

Also repeal all of the financial laws that restrict insider trading, allow for corporate oversight, etc.  Bernie Madoff would still be a free man.


Back to ridicullum, Glass Steagall did get repealled & thats where we got the derivitaves from. Geitner refused to tell CONGress where the $$$ went.. REallly? & he wasnt hauled off in cuffs? OOOplease..

Really want to do all of that?

Anyone who seriously thinks that "big business" runs the show today ought to read what it was like in 1959.  Business interests have lost about 90% of the clout that they had 50 years ago, or even in the 1970s.


I dont think so.

I'm all for the state workers getting minimum wage for a few months.  Let them live like other working class people do.  Maybe better yet, let's just make sure every one on a highway crew is required to have a shovel in his hand, rather than having 3 of them watching one guy dig.


Yea, But the Gunnator kept HIS paycheck,,, let that clown get paid a dollar a year. Hed still be over paid.

Since the recession in building hit, building inspectors in my town have so little to do that FOUR of them showed up the other days for a simple framing inspection at one of the few houses under construction.

Heaven forbid that the city would actually lay them off, like a business would.  And, my daughter is the ONLY member of city council opposing a doubling of the city's income tax rates, and giving the city employees a 6% raise across the board.


Govt has been operating as a parasite for decades. I saw that as a child. If a man ran his biz the way the goobs run theirs, he'd go to jail.

That's what's wrong.  If we respected business again, like people did in the 50s, instead of deriding business interests, and realized that business is what made America great, maybe we'd get somewhere again.


If biz respected the people the way they did when I was a kid, things would be different. Back then, they kept their people, & retired them. Now, as retirement approaches, they try to ditch them so as to avoid the pension [pmnts.
Nafta has been a disaster.



My mom worked in a small factory as a payroll clerk, and she respected the owner of the place.  She never even used his first name, he was always Mr. Guthrie.  Long after he had retired, he actually came back here from Florida to attend her funeral; yes, the funeral of a payroll clerk.  Would he have done that for someone who hated him? I doubt it.

But all we do now is villify business - oh well, we're getting what we deserve when we elect a Pres. to run this nation who never had a real job, nor even managed a lemonade stand.  Our priorites are just out of whack.  But again, it all goes back to who votes nowadays - those who have no stake in the outcome swing more elections than you can imagine.




Monsanto is out to destroy us, google Dyncor sex slavery, the FDA has made toxins in our food the norm. our govt is completley oput of control of the people & under the comtrol of huge corporations & the central bankers.

Eiosenhowers warning went unheeded.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #28 - 07/09/10 at 12:07:53
 
Serowbot -

At times there's a glimmer in your posts of a conservative.
I fear ,as you do, and for the same reasons.

But if you have this fear, why are you a left-winger?

That's te mystery to me.  Before the Dems quit being the party of the working person, and instead became the party of the non-working person, which occurred right about 1964 when LBJ got elected in his own right (maybe - he was still in the shadow of JFK).

JOG is right about a lot of things about the 1950s.  Pensions were common then, but gee whiz, only for those who worked.  SS was solvent too.  Personal incomes were growing, corporate profits were sizeable - all good things.  But then today, so many just criticize corp. profits, as if they were evil.

It's when the gov't started "caring" about people that things when to Hades in a hand basket.  Gov't isn't, or shouldn't be, in the business of caring - that's for private folks, churches, charities, foundations, etc. to do.

Yes, we should care, and act on our cares - but privately, not governmentally.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: So, America is the land of opportunity?
Reply #29 - 07/09/10 at 12:47:07
 
as long as there is inequality this bs will continue, period.  but being equal creates associations with BS communism and we cant' have that. not that that's the answer either. because being better is what humans strive for. most humans anyway. being better than they personally were the day before, but some strive to be better than another person, competitive nature and all that

I'm not advocating communism or a push for equality, just an acknowledgment of the innate problem of being human. just be the best person you can in your area and that's all any of us can do.  

yes the FED is a problem but I don't feel I can do anything about it, there are other things that are more important to me than the FED or anything govt. related. and getting all upset about this federal bs or that federal bs isn't helping me any
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