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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustment? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246935676 Message started by Digger on 07/06/09 at 20:01:16 |
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Title: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustment? Post by Digger on 07/06/09 at 20:01:16 I searched and couldn't find that this issue has been addressed before. My Factory Service Manual (FSM) says: NOTE: After installing the clutch cover, check whether the clutch lever is properly positioned or not by referring to the mark on the right crankcase. If the lever is not properly positioned, disassemble the clutch cover and select the proper size of the clutch push rod in the table of page 3.38 The above-mentioned table then lists three clutch rods, each one mm longer than the one before it. Here is a pic. You are looking at the end of the clutch release arm and, specifically, at the two index marks embossed in the right crankcase: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ClutchCoverIndexMarksE.jpg Question: What the heck is the FSM referring to. I'm assuming something like the extension of the center-line of the clutch release arm should fall in between the two index marks. If this is not the case, you can install a clutch push rod of a different length. By "clutch push rod," I'm referring to #22 in the following schematic: http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/42/Year/2001/ModelID/6205/Model/LS650P_SAVAGE/GroupID/252054/Group/CLUTCH Any takers? TIA! |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/06/09 at 20:38:52 Your cover got marks on it? :o |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/06/09 at 21:46:27 4E5D4A4B54595F5D5609380 wrote:
The right side of the crankcase does on my bike (see my signature). Yours might, too. Look at the clutch release arm on one of your Savages. The end of the arm (where the end of the clutch cable is attached) points at the crankcase. If you look on the crankcase where it is pointing to, you will see two little index marks, as seen in this picture: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ClutchCoverIndexMarksE.jpg |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/06/09 at 21:50:49 yep, both the '96 and the '02 have them. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 18:47:45 5C717F7F7D6A180 wrote:
4C616F6F6D7A080 wrote:
OK, Savagista. How does one use these index marks to determine the proper length of clutch push rod to be installed? |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/12/09 at 21:13:17 OK, where's Kropatchek when you need him? |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/09 at 08:33:19 If I had mine apart, Digger, Id be studying it, trying to come up with an answer here. The things I think I would do would be to see what length throwout rod it needed to stick out far enough to engage the cam early enough so as to ensure disengagement b4 running out of travel. GHow the lines aid in choosing the rod length? I dunno, but in trying other lengths , it might become obvious. I have a vernier caliper, I couldnt read it, I tried the instructions, but they blew my mind,so I just started measuring things of known value & studying the scale & figured it out, maybe this would work like that. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/09 at 08:53:10 The issue here is to keep the cam at the optimum angle for max disengagement of the clutch with the minimum lever force. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/09 at 09:01:54 243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:
Yea, something inside knew that, I just didnt quite spit it out, thanks.. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Oldfeller on 07/13/09 at 09:41:33 Here is what Verslagen and Toymaker and I talked about in the pool after the Dragon run -- our clutch plates don't really "wear out" when we think they are worn out, what really happens is they wear enough to move beyond the adjust ability of the pivot-push system you have just shown. There is plenty of meat left on the plates that are being removed during a clutch plate change out. The different rod lengths allow you to accommodate the stack up of the friction/steel plates as wear takes place. The wrinkle we were talking about was keeping up with the stack as it gets thinner, then popping in another steel and another worn friction once the stack gets short enough. This would create a "high performance" clutch pack, able to take modified motor torque outputs. Another point that drives the discussion are reports of "very short clutch life" after replacing the plates -- once again accumulated wear in the entire lever/cable/pivot system causes you to quickly go outside the adjustment parameters of the pivot-push lever even though you have fresh plates that you just put in. No one has ever worn their clutch plates to the service thickness limits given in the Clymers or shop manual. Yet clutch slippage is reported frequently here on the list. Verslagen was popping off about creating a pack of 6 rod lengths so a user could always be able to tune what he had for optimum clutch performance. This could span beyond what Suzuki offers in extra rod lengths. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/09 at 10:04:51 The clutch on a car runs out of "toe PLay" as the clutch wears. Would we need a shorter or longer rod as the clutches wear? Would I need to put slack in the cable? |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by ralfyguy on 07/13/09 at 10:40:32 I think if you run out of cable adjustment, but the clutch doesn't slip, you might need a longer rod. If you run out of cable adjustment AND the clutch slips, then either the plates are worn, or the springs got weak. Putting slack in the cable will ensure that the clutch is gripping 100%, but you run into the problem if too much play, it won't disengage enough. The rod is usually relaxed when the clutch lever is relaxed. If the plates are worn a bit, you need to compensate with tightening the cable. If you run out of cable adjustment, and the clutch doesn't slip yet, you either have a stretched cable, or more likely need to put a longer rod in the clutch. Or even the cam has worn too much on that spot it keeps hitting the rod. On my cam, there was a little identation where the rod touches, but I don't know if it comes from the factory like that. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/15/09 at 21:47:45 746770716E6365676C33020 wrote:
Ver, I agree. SWMBO's '92 BMW R100RT had an adjustment like that for dialing in the clutch play. My question has to do with actually reading the index marks. What exactly am I looking for (see the first post in this thread again, please). TIA! |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/15/09 at 22:50:52 775A54545641330 wrote:
Ok, item 22 has 3 versions. So most certainly this is what needs to be changed. And one wonders why if the lengths are not specified, why aren't they packaged together? A lesson in engineering tolerancing. There's an easy way and the right way to tolerance a stack up of several parts. The easy way... nominal ± 0.002" except when you make parts you like to make them in a way that has a little forgiveness to the method of manufacture. It's easier to remove metal than to put it back on. So you tolerance it +.001/-.003" your target is zero. So how do you apply this to those 2 lines? More metal is going to push the lever towards the bottom. Less metal and the lever will rise. So I would shoot for the bottom quarter mark as being optimum. But that's being anal to a BMW level. Get the b'tard between the marks and ride 8-) |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/16/09 at 21:47:54 7E6D7A7B64696F6D6639080 wrote:
Ok, item 22 has 3 versions. So most certainly this is what needs to be changed. And one wonders why if the lengths are not specified, why aren't they packaged together?...[/quote] The FSM (Chapter 3, Engine; Clutch inspection section) states that the three different rods have lengths of 1.75", 1.79", and 1.83". 43504746595452505B04350 wrote:
Unless I see anything different, I'm going to assume this is how you use these index marks: With the clutch cable disconnected from the clutch release arm, observe the position of the inboard end of the clutch release arm with respect to the index marks on the starboard crankcase. If the extension of the longitudinal centerline of the clutch release arm falls within the index marks, you're good to go. If not, you need to swap the clutch pushrod for one with a different length. Missiles? |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/09 at 00:18:54 042927272532400 wrote:
Trombone. .040" increments otherwise known as 1mm Seems like a reasonable procedure. But, don't think it would matter whether the cable was engaged or not. As there should be freeplay in the lever. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/17/09 at 21:00:11 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote:
Trombone. .040" increments otherwise known as 1mm Seems like a reasonable procedure. But, don't think it would matter whether the cable was engaged or not. As there should be freeplay in the lever.[/quote] Ver, The reason I specified that the cable should be disconnected from the clutch release arm is this: The only mention I find of these crankcase index marks in the FSM is in the section of Chapter 3 (ENGINE) that covers how to put the engine back together after you've disassembled it and inspected everything. It mentions to check the alignment of the clutch release arm against the index marks right after you've reinstalled the clutch cover and before you've reconnected the clutch cable to the clutch release arm. And, it does make a difference. When I took the pic shown in the first post in this thread, the clutch cable was disconnected and the clutch release arm "pointed" toward the lower half of the index mark range. After I connected the clutch cable and adjusted it to spec (with free play at the clutch lever), the clutch release arm "points" to the upper half of the index mark range. So, like I said, it does make a difference whether or not the clutch cable is connected and properly adjusted. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/09 at 22:37:20 Point taken, but with salt. Without tension on the system, there's going to be clearances instead of being snug. The shaft may not rest fully in the pocket of the cam. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Oldfeller on 07/26/09 at 16:34:06 I would like to have all the money wasted on clutches by list members in years past. Clutches got replaced when springs got weak (overheated due to abuse). Clutches got replaced when pusher rods just needed to be changed. Clutches got replaced due to the energy star additives in standard car oils making the plates slip. Clutches got replaced because folks didn't know how to adjust their clutch on both ends of the cable (and I am one of these BTW as I just plain didn't know there was an another adjustment under the rubber thingy up on the clutch lever assembly) ========= To recover a clutch pack that has had energy star additive oil used in it. Take the pack apart, soak the plates in solvent (yeah, gasoline) over night, then let dry thoroughly in the sun. Take a finishing sander and fine grit paper to the steel plates on both sides to remove the glazing and roughen up the surface a little bit. VERY LIGHTLY buff the surface of the totally dry gasoline cleaned fiber plates with the same fine grit of sandpaper. Then soak the dry roughened fiber plates overnight in Rotella T diesel motor oil. Reassemble clutch pack, using appropriate pusher rod to put the arm in between the marks. Use Rotella T 15w40 diesel oil (or the Rotella 5w40 Synthetic if you prefer the higher temperature proof synthetic) from now on -- the dispersants and detergents in the oil will tend to scrub the slippery energy star stuff out of your motor over the span of a couple of oil changes. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Toymaker on 07/27/09 at 05:57:49 Well, I have decided to go ahead and order the three rods. I will drain the oil and put the cover because right now, the savage is just getting some clutch and I know that there is more clutch hiding in there. I'l put the next smallest rod in and see where the arm hits the marks. If it is between them, then I'll replace the oil and off we go. If it is still not where it shold be, then I'll put the smallest 0f the rods in and see. The rods are cheap enough at bikebandit. And I'll still have my new clutch plates and springs for when I REALLY need a new clutch. |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Digger on 07/27/09 at 20:48:27 6E525F6E5543575B515F483A0 wrote:
Toy, I can't remember what it looks like in there. So, you think a smaller rod will move the arm down? And, you seem to agree with Verslagen that further down (but still within the index marks) is better. Is that correct? I'm just gathering data for the next time I'm in there. TIA! |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Toymaker on 07/28/09 at 06:03:09 I think the cam from the lever rests against the end of the rod. As OF has said, as the pack wears, the rod gets longer. If we place a smaller rod in there, then the amount of play and adjustment must get increased. Makes sense since Suzuki lists 3 different rods, each a mm shorter than the last. :) |
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Title: Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen Post by Jsud04 on 06/03/14 at 04:30:25 I know this is an old post but I feel there needs to be some clarification for folks. When you release the cable tension the clutch arm might fall below the two index marks. This is fine, it just means the rocker inside the clutch cover is completely disengauged from the push rod. To gauge the wear you need to use you finger and push the clutch arm up untill it meets resistance. The is reengaging the rocker against the push rod, you don't need to horse on it. This is where you push rod is currently worn to. Correct me if I am wrong, but above the index marks is what you want to avoid, and what you will encounter. |
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