So, are you saying finding a better grade of chain just extends the time you have before other items cause your chain to move on in until it hits itself?

I can live with that.  We are saying the same thing -- chain stretch is a part of a "systems wear out" issue.

Follow this chain of logic (pun intended).  I extend my pusher (by either means) until my chain hits itself.  I am out of adjustment totally and the old chain is shot.  I pull the engine down far enough to change out both of the guides and the chain and I pay the bucks for a carbide pinned premium plus silent chain which I then install along with brand new guides.

I go through the same "extend the pusher" systems wear out routine, but it takes twice as many or more miles to cause this new chain to stretch until it hits itself.  As long as the premium plus chain didn't cost twice as much as a stock Suzuki chain I am ahead of the game.

Could you get positive effects by lowering spring tension "k" -- sure you could.  Could you get positive effects by bowing the left side guide into a curve -- sure you could.  

Will any of these equal the benefit of replacing a marginally crappy standard low-end chain with a premium plus chain -- think on the spread of life between a standard rear wheel chain and a premium plus rear wheel chain.  Premium plus X ring chains costs 3x more but always lasts 5x longer and requires less adjustments and longer maintenance intervals between hard wax spray jobs.

That's why I sprang for an X ring 530 chain for my sprocket conversion.  I don't want to screw with it any more than I have to.

KenGLong == have you whipped a caliper out on that new cam chain of yours yet?  

Oldfeller

Oldfeller2 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:06:

Just now measured it after I read your post. It's 126.46mm across 21 pins, center to center. There are 66 pins total. The package didn't have any info on original manufacturer or chain specs. Just the Suzuki info.

So, if I were to send my old chain off to that place, do you think they would be able to identify it well enough to supply a better quality chain?

I think a better quality, longer lasting chain coupled with verslagen's modified plunger might be just enough improvement to double the maintenance interval. I've been holding of reassembling my Savage until I was confident that the maintenance interval was significantly increased. When I had only the Savage, I put 10,000 miles on it in just over a year. That means the chain maintenance interval would be every two years for me. That's too often in my opinion but I would tolerate every four years.

Ken

Kind offer, but all I would do is measure it and send it back to you.  It is a brand new chain after all.

http://www.ramseychain.com/chain_identification.asp

These folks identify 10 questions that they say will allow them to match a chain.  If you will measure out your chain and fill in the list of 10 items I'll contact them for their best estimate of what we have and get a sample chain from them.

P.S.  Please do the measurements both in inches and MM -- we still could be dealing with an inch chain as it may have been the lowest cost cam chain back when the bike was designed.

Justin has a used chain he may be sending me.  (I don't feel bad keeping a worn out chain)  If so, with the measurements from a new chain and an old chain to send for match sample I can't see why a reputable vendor couldn't ID that chain exactly and provide us a match made out of better stuff.

Proof of the pudding is the mate up of the sample of "improved" chain provided when installed on the sprockets of our bike.  Someone will have to be at a teardown point to put the improved chain on trial.  I'm at least 10,000 miles from needing a total tear down so we will need a volunteer for that trial.

But right now we are stuck on "GO" until we get that chain identified.

Oldfeller

SAVAGE CAM CHAIN IDENTIFICATION
JUNE 27, 2007 - Ken Long
Brand new chain, never installed.

http://www.ramseychain.com/chain_identification.asp


1. Is the chain used for power transmission or conveying?

 NO

2. What is the guide type? Center Guide, 2-Center Guide, or Side Guide?

 SIDE GUIDE (both sides)

3. What is the Pitch? See "Fundamentals" for the best way to measure pitch.

 6.345mm (1/4")

4. Do the driving links in the chain resemble any of the links shown?

 RPV Type 139   THIS ONE APPEARS TO BE MOST SIMILAR.
 RPV Type 115
 Rampower
 SC
 Ramflex
 Single Oval Pin Conveyor
 Two Pin Conveyor
 LoProfile
 Extended Pitch

5. Are there any markings on the chain links?

 STAMPED UPPERCASE "M" ON MOST GUIDES.
 HAND ENGRAVED "AD" ON ONE GUIDE.

6. What is the width over pin heads? See "Fundamentals" for measuring width over heads.

10.76mm, 10.79mm, 10.86mm, 10.77mm, 10.77mm, 10.76mm, 10.82mm, 10.78mm, 10.83mm, 10.85mm
(10.799mm AVERAGE)

7. What is the width between guides? (If the chain is side guide) See "Fundamentals" for measuring width between guides.

7.19mm, 7.19mm, 7.18mm, 7.15mm, 7.15mm, 7.15mm, 7.15mm, 7.17mm, 7.13mm, 7.13mm
(7.159mm AVERAGE)

8. Does each chain joint have one pin or two pins?

 ONE

9. Does the chain include spacers?

 NO

10. Is it a Duplex chain? See "Fundamentals" for characteristics of a duplex chain.

 NO



I was pretty excited to find that hand engraved mark. I'll bet someone in the trade would know what it was.

Ken

The number I posted was the result of the divide-by-two step.

In order to factor out the pin diameter, I measured from the outside of one pin to the outside of the third pin. Then I measured the diameter of one pin and subtracted (learned that trick here!) Dividing by two was the last step.

I'm not a machinist though. My only experience in a machine shop was about 33 years ago in high school metal shop. My eye isn't as good as it should be when using a caliper (mine's digital) but my pitch measurement came out so close to 1/4", I figure that has to be it. Maybe you can verify it when you get that used chain from justin_o_guy.

Ken

The SSM says "20 pitch length", 21 pins, and the service limit is 128.9 mm (5.07 in).

Ken

127.25 mm across 21 pins works out to a pitch of 6.3625 mm. 6.35 mm is exactly 1/4" so your chain was a bit stretched.

Ken

Due to the construction, the pitch will be easy ti see, regardless of stretch.Each link is a claw with an interlaced set of claws. The distance across the peaks shows to be 1/4 when I lay it on its back & I can pull on it & see the pin wear, altho it is very slight, but I can see the plates shift one on another & see the misalignment in the peaks of each side of each "claw" that makes each link. Some more than others. The chain isnt worn evenly at all. I wonder if parts were oiled more quickly than others? Or, are the pins of such low quality? OR<< Since the chain is always in the same place when the piston hits the power stroke & the engine internals are being spun up under acceleration, if that section between front edge of the crank & front edge of the cam sees stresses the rest of the chain doesnt see, that would explain the uneven wear, wouldnt it? Well, Hang on a minute, now, Since theres more chain on the back side than on the front, the "Target" link wont be exactly where it started, So, the cam chain isnt "Indexed" with regard to which links are exposed to each power pulse between the cam & crank. So, the uneven wear has no explanatiuon as far as the power stroke causing it, IMO. Anyone explain uneven wear? Crappy components?  DRY start?