SuzukiSavage.com - won't start..

tzuguway

Ex Member

won't start..
05/21/06 at 11:18:31

Hi everyone!,

I've been trying to start up a 1990 Savage, but the engine will not crank. I replaced the big starter driven gear with the one-way clutch, because the old one had broken teeth.

Now the gears just spin freely when I press the start button.. Not rotating the engine.. Could it be that I installed the gear somewhat wrong? Could somebody please explain how the starting system mechanics work? How does the starter gears rotate the main axle/rotor assembly?

I tried to read thru the old messages, but no help. It looks like the electrical system is working fine. The solenoids work and the starter motor. The motor just won't crank and can't get the sparkplug to spark. Tried it with a new charged battery with a car battery to assist, so I don't think problem is the voltage.

-Tzugu

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SeattleSavage

Ex Member

Re: won't start..
Reply #1 - 05/21/06 at 12:49:14

The solenoid connected to the starter pushes the gear out to meet with the flywheel and then the starter turns rotating the flywheel in turn rotating the engine.

Not sure if this helps.

If your solenoid is working and the starter is turning the flywheel and your motor isn't turning, this is not a good thing.

(I'm using car terminology, so if I'm using the terms wrong someone is more than welcome to correct me)

Kevin

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steelwolf

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Re: won't start..
Reply #2 - 05/21/06 at 19:45:51

Well if the starter on the bike works like a car then it could spin without engaging. This is caused by the bendix in the starter being bad. The solinoid makes the starter spin and makes the bendix jump out and engage. One can work without the other, but it takes the both of them to start the engine. If the starter is engaging then the engine should turn over. If not as Seattle stated "this is not good". If the engine turns over but dosen't start there are several possibilties. Maybe the cam chain is broken thus keeping the top half the engine from funtioning. Or maybe it just isn't timed right causing it to operate the valves at the wrong time. I'm not sure how the plug fires but if it works off of the cam this could very well be the problem.

Or, it could be something alltogether different.

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Max_Morley

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Re: won't start..
Reply #3 - 05/21/06 at 21:09:57

Any chance the gear with the one way clutch could have gone in turned around?? If so that would explain the starter spins no crank effect. It is made to free spin on the one way clutch when the egnine is running so the starter doesn't turn then. It is different than automotive types and it doesn't have abedix per se. the one way clutch serves that purpose and the gears are always in contact just not spinning the starter. Small Honda singles, Yamaha TW200, Yamaha Big Bear ATV, other bikes and my Kawasaki Mule have the same system. On some the one way clutch is on the gear on the alternator rotor, but the effect is the same, one it starts and then starter is disengaged electrically, it doesn't spin. That is the clunk you hear when the Savagd engine stops and starts to spin backwards on the unfired compression stroke when you shut it off. Max

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Max at Thumper Acres. '96 Savage bagger, '03 Savage w/Cozy sidecar for wifeni.

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SeattleSavage Ex Member	Re: won't start.. Reply #4 - 05/21/06 at 22:52:38 Thanks for clarifying Max. I knew I heard the starter gear at shutdown but didn't put one and one together. Makes sense though.
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tzuguway

Ex Member

Re: won't start..
Reply #5 - 05/22/06 at 02:21:20

I don't think there is a way to install the gear with the one way clutch wrong, except that the one way clutch itself could be installed the wrong way.

Now the clutch bites on clockwise and spins freely counter clockwise. I think the engine should rotate counter clockwise? =)

The gear with the clutch came to me brand new from the factory. Could they install it the wrong way there? Does anyone know do Suzuki use this same assembly on other bikes too? It would explain it, because if the gears and starter motor would be on the other side of the bike, the clutch would work the other way around... right?

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Kropatchek

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Re: won't start..
Reply #6 - 05/22/06 at 05:15:29

tzuguway wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

I don't think there is a way to install the gear with the one way clutch wrong, except that the one way clutch itself could be installed the wrong way.

Now the clutch bites on clockwise and spins freely counter clockwise. I think the engine should rotate counter clockwise? =)

The gear with the clutch came to me brand new from the factory. Could they install it the wrong way there? Does anyone know do Suzuki use this same assembly on other bikes too? It would explain it, because if the gears and starter motor would be on the other side of the bike, the clutch would work the other way around... right?

The direction of rotation of the crankshaft = Anti-clockwise as viewed from the LH side. Or in other words and easy to remember, the same as the wheels turn ( when driving foreward for the nitpickers)

Quote from the Suzuki Workshop manual:

When fitting the one-way clutch to the bracket position flange side of the one-way clutch to the rotor side.
Unquote

By bracket I think they mean the middle part of #5.

So you have to remove the rotor again and turn the one-way clutch.

Because it came as an assembly from the factory does not neccessarely mean it's on the correct position, I would not trust it anyway.

Your question if the unit is used on other bikes is hereby answered.

Greetz
Kropachek 8)

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tzuguway

Ex Member

Re: won't start..
Reply #7 - 05/22/06 at 07:42:32

Thank you for the advice!

I'll try to turn the one-way-clutch and see what happens.

I just can't figure out in my head how does the darn thing work. If I change the one-way-clutch to operate the other way around, so that when the engine is rotating anti clockwise and the big gear is rotating the axle, what makes the starter motor stop rotating when the engine starts?

-tzugu

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SeattleSavage Ex Member	Re: won't start.. Reply #8 - 05/22/06 at 15:16:43 Because the clutch is gripping when torque is applied to it but when the motor starts the big wheel goes faster than the starter gear which makes the bigger gear the one applying the torque in turn activating the clutch. I can see the pictures in my head, but not sure if my words are good enough to illustrate it for you. Kevin
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Max_Morley

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Re: won't start..
Reply #9 - 05/22/06 at 18:07:31

If you want to see how that one way clutch works, stop by an automatic transmission shop and have them show you one. they are in automatic transmissions (and older 40' & 50's even some 60's vehicles that had 3 speed on the tree and OD transmissions) they are either rollers that ride up ramps in the lock up direction and wedge the inner and out rings as one or ellipitical shaped metal barrels that wedge one way and slip the other. They make rachetless scredrivers and socket drive handle using them now. They do not have to turn a specific number of degress to get another bite, any movement will reset the them. Nice for really tight spots. To reverse the ones I have you push the square drive o0ut the other way as they do not reverse with a lever. Max

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Max at Thumper Acres. '96 Savage bagger, '03 Savage w/Cozy sidecar for wifeni.

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tzuguway Ex Member	Re: won't start.. Reply #10 - 05/24/06 at 00:14:08 Thank you everybody for the advice! Turned the one-way-clutch over and bike works like a charm. At least for the moment. -Tzugu
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