SuzukiSavage.com - Starting problems

Steve530

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #15 - 12/09/05 at 15:44:57

Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12:

Ok had a chance to sit down and think on this....

- sounds like you have spark as it runs for a few seconds
- may want to swap the plug anyway a couple of champion RA6HCs are cheap and you can use them later to tune on the carb.

After it runs 10 seconds and dies with the petc0ck set to On - pull the carb drain at the bottom of the bowl - did a couple of ounces of gas drain out? - just wanting to make sure it's flooding and not running dry

I know of at least a couple of ways it will do this, that is run for a few seconds and flood out:

Float is sticking open - either the cutoff needle is bad or the seat or just some trash is in the way not letting it shut off the gas

The Mikuni is a slide carb - the round slide has a needle that hangs out the bottom of the slide and closes the main jet off until enough vac causes it to lift and open the main jet - if this slide is hanging because it's dirty or it can't close off the main jet because of trash in the needle jet tube the needle fits into it will do this - you can remove the seat to have a better look and pull off the rubber tube that goes from the cab to the air box to have a look at this slide it should go up and down very smooth.

The petc0ck is vacuume operated when set to On and Res - the vac line runs from the right hand side (starboard) of the carb to the back side of the petc0ck - this operates a diaphram - if this diaphram is leaking it will let raw fuel be sucked straight into the engine - you can remove this vac and see if it has any gas in it - it should not

Let us know how your getting along with this problem, sounds like a fun one.

Thanks for all the analysis, ReelThing. I hadn't thought to remove the carb drain plug to see what comes out. I'm not sure it's flooding. I suspect it is starved for gas, but after cranking for several minutes I can smell raw gas.

I will check the vacuum tube.

I bought a spark plug today and a can of SeaFoam. My plan today is to open the carb drain and see if there is gas in the bowl. After it drains put the drain plug back in. Then I'll add some Sea Foam to the gas tank, open the drain and move the petcock to "Pri". If I understand this correctly, this should let the gas in the tank drain into the carb. Hopfully, the Sea Foam will remove any varnish on the parts. I'll drain some out and close it back up. Then I'll let it set a few minutes and give the starting another try.

Steve

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield

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SavageDude

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #16 - 12/09/05 at 15:54:53

Steve
It runs for a few seconds, then you do have spark at the plug. And it die when you let go of the throttle, it dies. Sound likes carb problem definitely. As to what the extend of the problem, you have to open the carb up and see what's going on in there. I hope you are mechanically inclined and have a service manual in hand before starting to hack at this task. The last time I removed the carb, I did a bunch of different mods on the bike(i.e. seat mod, header cover mod--spark plug access w/o removing the tank, white-spacer mod, changed all Philip head screw on the carb to Allen head screws to easily mod on the carb in the future). It's a quite-involved process.
You can find lots of great info in the Technical Documents like these:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1100708616
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1124016763
Good luck Dude

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2005 S40, debadged, Tkat FB, saddle bags, sissy bar, HD Sporter muff, Fly screen, white spacer mod, 150 main jet.....and sssslowly upgrading

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Steve530

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #17 - 12/09/05 at 16:15:58

Thanks, SavageDude. Those links are a real help. I think I can get thhe tank off with those instructions. At least I can chenge out the spark plug and do the "spark plug door mod" that way.

I am mechanically inclined, well, experienced, at least. I pretty much do all the service on my family's cars. But I have no experience with motorcycles. This should be interesting.

Steve

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield

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Steve530

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #18 - 12/09/05 at 18:37:12

I took the drain plug out, and I got about an ounce of gas. I moved the petcock to "PRI" and got nothing.

I removed the fuel line that runs from the rear side (aft) of the petcock to the carb. I assume this is the fuel supply to the carb. Lots of gas flowing out of that. I could control the gas flow with the petcock.

Finally I squirted a little SeaFoam directly into the carb fuel inlet and let it set a while. After a few minutes, I rapped the side of the carb with a screwdriver and the gas started flowing out of the drain plug. I assume I dislodged the float needle. There was not a lot of flow out of the drain, but it was steady and I could control it with the petcock.

I'm charging the battery now and will try it later.

Does this make sense?

Anyone know how much flow I should expect from the drain?

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Starting problems Reply #19 - 12/09/05 at 19:30:32 makes perfect sense for a stuck float - about an ounce out of the bowl sounds pretty good- a slow trickle of gas with the drain plug out and the petc0ck on pri sounds good as well it's just a gravity feed and the inlet hole on the carb isn't very big - so no flow until you rap on it a few times ?
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Steve530

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #20 - 12/09/05 at 19:48:43

Right, after the gas drained out, there was no flow until I rapped on the side of the carb.

I figure this means that the float needle is gunked up and sticking to the seat.

I timed the flow, I get about 20 cc of gas per 30 seconds.

I've drained about 12 oz of gas through the carb now. I left the petcock on PRI, so when I drained that I got a lot of gas out. Probably flooded it pretty good.

Waiting for the battery to charge. Then I'll give it another shot.

Steve

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Starting problems Reply #21 - 12/09/05 at 19:54:48 need to watch it though - if it was gunked up enough to stick it may not shut off either you don't want to leak gas all over the place
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Steve530 Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline Posts: 452 Knoxville, TN Gender:	Re: Starting problems Reply #22 - 12/09/05 at 20:02:53 Good point, I'll watch for leaks if I get it to start. Otherwise, I think I'll be in for a carb cleaning. At least I think I've narrowed it down to the carb. Of course, if I get into that, I'll be replacing the spark plug while I'm at it. Steve
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Steve530 Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline Posts: 452 Knoxville, TN Gender:	Re: Starting problems Reply #23 - 12/09/05 at 20:44:47 It finally started. It must have been the stuck float needle. I ran it until it was hot enough to run without the choke and another 15 minutes or so afterward. I'm looking forward to taking it out tomorrow for a ride. My thanks to all that offered help and suggestions. Steve
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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Starting problems - It Thumps! Reply #24 - 12/09/05 at 20:47:09 congrats!
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SavageDude Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Posts: 561 OC_California Gender:	Re: Starting problems - It Thumps! Reply #25 - 12/09/05 at 20:56:30 Great feeling isn't it,Steve? I can imagine the grin that you had when the beast start thumping again Congrat.
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Steve530 Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline Posts: 452 Knoxville, TN Gender:	Re: Starting problems - It Thumps! Reply #26 - 12/09/05 at 21:29:50 Thanks, guys. Yea, it does feel great. Considering how little I know about motrocycles in general and the Savage in particular, it felt good working through the probelm. Of course I couldn't have done it without all the help offered here I really appreciate it. Steve
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Dynobob

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Re: Starting problems
Reply #27 - 12/10/05 at 02:25:02

Steve530 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12:

It finally started. It must have been the stuck float needle. I ran it until it was hot enough to run without the choke and another 15 minutes or so afterward.

Good job ! I think you should be ok now. Have fun and be very safe with all that gasoline around.

You might want to put an inline filter in the fuel line. I've been buying mine at the lawn mower shop. Briggs and Stratton I believe.

Edit: one more thing came to mind. Do not leave your petc0ck on "Prime" while your bike is parked. With a sticky float needle, fuel will run into your engine's crankcase, flood your engine, and cause some big problems. If your petc0ck is working, just leave it in the "On" position all the time.

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Steve530

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Re: Starting problems - It Thumps!
Reply #28 - 12/10/05 at 07:58:16

Thanks. I like the idea of adding a fuel filter to keep trash out of the carb. I'll get a filter, a couple of clamps and a little fuel line tubing. I guess I'll need to measure the tubing and try to find one that will fit.

It started on the second try this morning, so I think all is good. The engine even seems to be running smoother. I have SeaFoam in the gas in the tank. I plan on running that through the engine today, if I have time. Then put some fresh gas with StaBil in the tank.

Steve

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield

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Dynobob Serious Thumper Offline 2003 LS650 (with Supertrapp) Posts: 634 Northern Virginia Gender:	Re: Starting problems - It Thumps! Reply #29 - 12/10/05 at 13:01:22 Steve530 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12: Thanks. I like the idea of adding a fuel filter to keep trash out of the carb. Here's the filter I've been buying: Briggs and Stratton 493629 It's for 1/4" fuel line, is nice and big, and should work great. It's comes with four clamps and costs about $5.
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