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CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!! (Read 15 times)
Mr 650
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #15 - 08/17/05 at 12:17:22
 
Are you saying "you drove better without it" (a license) Smiley

sluggo wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
your words ring true, the only thing you got wrong is this.  THERE ARE NO TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS, ONLY TRAFFIC COLLISIONS.  all collisions are preventable, they are not accidents,  and accident is when you laff and crap you pants.  Shocked

i work with the washington state traffic safety commision, so i am fully aware of the stats.

here's an ironic story.   set the way back machine to 1980.  i had a series of speeding tickets,  all less than 5%percent over the limit, because of this my license was suspended. i drove for three years without so the tickets would clear record.  fast forward to three years ago.  i joined the traffic safety department, just guess who my boss turned out to be?  the guy who put me on probation, then suspended my license.  

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Mr 650
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #16 - 08/17/05 at 13:16:16
 
Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
... a 5,000 pound 1976 Ford LTD with hydralic rams on the bumpers and steel beams in the doors.  This is the class of vehicle often seen outside of bars at 1:30 am -- for a very good reason: the risk of injury in the event of a collision are greatly reduced.  You can trade risky behaviour for protection and stay at the same level of risk of injury.


The old saying goes something like; 'the Lord protects children, drunks and fools'.

Ever wonder why it seems like the odds are against the law-abiding citizen who is killed and the speeder survives on the highway?

Ever do any target shooting, in particular along the lines of high(er) powered, flat shooting varmint stuff and such?
It is amazing the damage a smaller round can impart on a target as it's velocity increases, basically- mass x velocity = energy. Bullit vs. larger orange;


Two cars traveling at the same speed, the larger car’s mass “wins”. The occupants in the smaller vehicle or bike experience more deceleration, while the larger one continues, at the expense of the other, smaller ones energy.

Now imagine the guy leaves the bar and gets into your LTD (or any “big ride”) vs., a late model “$hit-box” (that has little/no steel and much less mass than the LTD) or bike. What this driver has done, additionally, is increase his potential energy and his chances to impart more death and destruction while protecting himself. Unless the oncoming smaller car has more velocity and can transfer it to the larger one and the  smaller's airbags and seat belts all work.
So increasing your mass may not always, but usually increase your odds. Most would prefer to be in the LTD vs. a Volkswagen, in town. However as velocities go up on the highway, faster cars can and do "win".

It does not have to be an "cage"; a motorcycle will do, if the bike's velocity is fast enough, multiple deaths can occur;


"The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually flipped over from the force of impact and landed 3m (10 feet) from where the collision took place.
* All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed
instantly."
http://www.sandstorming.com/index.php/2005/08/250-kmh-crash-pictures/

The bike/rider was 'successful' in overpowering the car in this case and flipping it. (An extreme example, only one I could find). Who knows had he cleared the car instead of entering it, might have had sufficient time to decel & survive, if no other obstacles, also his mass would not have contributed as much energy, but think the passengers chances would not have improved much.
A larger vehicle will always have more mass, than a smaller one, but it may not always have more energy.  8)
Where is the LTD? Gone w/ $1 gas!
So what do you drive now?
What will we drive w/ $3 gas?  or $4?
 :'(
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SilverBlue '01,K&N,Snorklectomy,125mm NOS carb, 1/2 spacer & 155, 'Trapp, NC flyscreen, Suzy GelSeat, Osram H4
later..putt. Putt, PUtt, PUTT! 8)
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RadarORiley
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #17 - 08/17/05 at 20:15:28
 
Thanks, guys for the words to one of my favorite songs. I always try to remember this whenI'm riding:

       STUPID HURTS
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Paladin.
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #18 - 08/17/05 at 23:35:25
 
Mr 650 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
....
Ever do any target shooting, in particular along the lines of high(er) powered, flat shooting varmint stuff and such?
It is amazing the damage a smaller round can impart on a target as it's velocity increases, basically- mass x velocity = energy. .....
Yeah....  But given the same velocity, the large bullet has the greater energy. Quote:
So increasing your mass may not always, but usually increase your odds. Most would prefer to be in the LTD vs. a Volkswagen, in town. However as velocities go up on the highway, faster cars can and do "win".....
.....

Pretty picture.  Meaningless unless you also include a picture of a similar motorcycle that impacted a old full-sized American car at the same speed.  Given being struck by that bike -- would you rather be in (1) nothing (2) a V-dub (3) an LTD or (4) a Sherman Tank.

Mass matters.  Given similar collisions you are safer surrounded by greater mass.   On a motorcycle you are not surrounded by any mass; hence collision avoidance takes on greater priority.

Quote:
Where is the LTD? Gone w/ $1 gas!
So what do you drive now?
What will we drive w/ $3 gas?....

What I drive has no bearing on what is safer in a collision.  The price of gas did not matter to me when I was driving the LTD as I considered it to be the cost of insurance.

Getting back to the subject, "CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!"   Are you suggesting that I get rid of the Savage and go purchase another massive cage that can surround me with steel and air-bags and be safer?  Or do you mean I should stop driving defensively and "live" in the meaning of enjoying the thrill of "life in the fast lane"?  Which habits that I have developed over the past 40 years of safe driving shall I change?
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Mr 650
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #19 - 08/18/05 at 01:02:35
 
Well OLy-penn just trashed my reply so  F-it.

I thought the car vs. bike was sufficint to point out a false sense of security of a "Big Ride".

You can be in a sherman tank but if I shoot at you w/ depleated uranium again you would have a false sense of security. At surface street speed the passengers in the VW would have survived, but the bike was like ballistic-fast. Exchange the 90's WOT-aluminum-framed, crotch-rocket  vs. the VW and let's exchange them w/ 60s Electraglide vs. the LTD. You still wanna sit in it while the bagger enters the passenger door at WOT top speed??
Energy is not "meaningless", the faster ya go the more it means. It meant nothing that they were in a cage vs, a bike, the car  still ROLLED on impact...sideways after the bike transfered all it's energy to the car.

I don't expect to change your or anyone's driving or lifestyle.
In addition, I was just speculating  how gas prices are changing/have changed what is considered "safe".  Smiley
P.S. the local news ran a piece showing the local Vespa dealer cashing-in on gas prices - new Vespas get 65 mpg, & are about 3 grand here. The Vespa riders  would be better off on a Savage IMHO.
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SilverBlue '01,K&N,Snorklectomy,125mm NOS carb, 1/2 spacer & 155, 'Trapp, NC flyscreen, Suzy GelSeat, Osram H4
later..putt. Putt, PUtt, PUTT! 8)
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dannimal
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #20 - 08/18/05 at 01:04:46
 
OK since tracking this post I've been more cautious riding latley. I guess you guys sold me on this one. Just keep reminding us all now and then and you'll make better riders out of all of us eventually. (especially with the pics!)
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Savage_Rob
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #21 - 08/18/05 at 06:12:30
 
Personally, I viewed this as simply more information.  The more I have, the better decisions I can make - regardless of whatever decisions any of you make.  Those are up to you.
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gazab44
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #22 - 08/18/05 at 06:29:42
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
Personally, I viewed this as simply more information.  The more I have, the better decisions I can make.


But also don't you think that more informatiom can lead to being a little paranoid.......(or am i smoking too much LOL)
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Savage_Rob
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #23 - 08/18/05 at 07:54:41
 
gazab44 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
But also don't you think that more informatiom can lead to being a little paranoid.......(or am i smoking too much LOL)

Okay, two responses come to mind...

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

"I know I'm paranoid.  The question is whether I'm paranoid enough."
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #24 - 08/18/05 at 09:42:14
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
Okay, two responses come to mind...

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

"I know I'm paranoid.  The question is whether I'm paranoid enough."


Good Point!! 8)
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DavidV
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #25 - 08/18/05 at 10:19:42
 
I'd like to see statistics about the contributing factors to motorcycle accidents and fatalities.  It would be interesting to see what percentages were due to bad riding habits such as alcohol use or excessive speed, and what were caused by other factors.  

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #26 - 08/18/05 at 10:25:30
 
DavidV wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
I'd like to see statistics about the contributing factors to motorcycle accidents and fatalities.  It would be interesting to see what percentages were due to bad riding habits such as alcohol use or excessive speed, and what were caused by other factors.  




I am intersted in that to but havn't had the time to research it. when I do I will post it. 8)
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #27 - 08/18/05 at 10:50:45
 
Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
I started driving on the public highways in November, 1962.

OMFG!  You must be older than you look (or maybe you've been doing a bit more of the PhotoShoppin' we've seen from you).  You hit the highways in the month prior to that when I was born.  Hey, keep it up bro.

Rob
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #28 - 08/18/05 at 14:37:43
 
Paladin, I have you beat, my Dad had me backing up 18 wheelers when I was 8. (1950) When he came in from a run, it was my job to clean it up and get it ready for the next one out.
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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #29 - 08/18/05 at 17:39:09
 
DavidV wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:
I'd like to see statistics about the contributing factors to motorcycle accidents and fatalities.  It would be interesting to see what percentages were due to bad riding habits such as alcohol use or excessive speed, and what were caused by other factors.  


The Hurt Report, outdated, but likely still mostly true:

Quote:
7. The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision
THEY WILL NOT SEE YOU no matter what you do.  I trust a car as far as I can throw it -- and I don't know about you but I can't throw cars very far.  ALways assume that a driver does not see you until you get a positive reaction.
Quote:
20. Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly overrepresented in accidents
DUH!!!  Youth is significantly overrepresented in automobile accidents also.  The only difference is that a car offers a little more protection in the event of an accident.
Quote:
27. Almost half of the fatal accidents show alcohol involvement.
It cannot be stressed enough -- any alcohol impairs your judgement and ability.  With the protection of a car around me I am willing to drive with some impairment, a 24 ounce Foster's at the Outback for instance.  I will not ride a bike with any alcohol impairment -- you crash a bike you *will* hurt.  More true as you get older.
Quote:
29. The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action.
 You want to avoid that 2 second collision avoidance action.  Look well ahead.  Anything within 4 seconds in front of you is a danger.  You should be watching ahead to the limits of visibility for developing situations.
Quote:
35. Motorcycle riders in these accidents were significantly without motorcycle license, without any license, or with license revoked.
Reckless people inflate the accident statistics.
Quote:
37. The likelihood of injury is extremely high in these motorcycle accidents-98% of the multiple vehicle collisions and 96% of the single vehicle accidents resulted in some kind of injury to the motorcycle rider; 45% resulted in more than a minor injury.
Repeat it often -- you want to avoid an accident.  They tend to hurt.
Quote:
43. Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed in impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.
This is interesting.  I voted for Ronnie Ray-guns largely because he stated he was against mandatory helmets, but supported mandatory eye-protection as the eye-protection prevented accidents involving others.
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