SuzukiSavage.com - CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!

Oklahoma_Mike

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CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
08/14/05 at 10:35:57

I was driving into work today (Yes today SUNDAY!). It is a dark rainy day. After I got to work I was thinking about the bad driving conditions. This thinking inspired me to start a new thread. I am not trying to scare anyone. I just think with a little awareness we all could change our World, our Country, our State, our City, our Community, our Neighborhood, our Friends, our Family, Ourselves. To do that we need to follow the list I just made just in opposite order!! Most of what I will write is directed at driving in general and not just motorcycles. I often talk with family and friends about driving and accidents. When I do I always talk numbers. I see a change in there face and behavior when they hear the statistics. Remember we are talking about something we on average do 10-15% of the day. Often while doing other things like eating breakfast, talking on the phone or just daydreaming. Most of us are clueless to the FACT that this is the most dangerous thing we will do in our lives and we do it 10-15% of EVERYDAY!!

I implore you to spend a little time on the site below by changing your outlook on driving it may save your life or the life of someone you touch with your input on this subject. Remember the statistics on the site are for deaths and not injury. Far more people are injured!

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

Unfortunately in our lifetime most of us will either be involve in or have a family member involve in a SERIOUS accident. Many of the accidents will claim lives. I as well as many have lost ones I love because they or someone else was not paying attention. It is my hopes that we can help ourselves and others to be more aware of our vehicle and the vehicles around us. I lost my :'(dad :'( on a motorcycle when I was young to a person who was simply not involved in driving the vehicle. I say involved because driving is like being married. If you cheat (talk on the phone and such) sooner or later you WILL GET CAUGHT AND YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE. It’s like being married except that it doesn’t have to be till death do us part!!!!

Now I enjoy a beer just as much as the next person Tongue

but something to take note of alcohol is a factor in almost Shocked

half

of all vehicle fatalities! Being stupid with your own life is one thing but thinking about risking other peoples live should send a chill down all of our backs!

Ok I feel better. THANK YOU for listening I officially resign the soapbox. If anyone wants to talk about this off forum email me and we will converse.

diggintaz11@yahoo.com

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torque Serious Thumper 2005 No Login Offline 2008 nightster,flat od green and black Posts: 748 rock hill,S.C. Gender:	Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!! Reply #1 - 08/14/05 at 11:43:43 Are you trying to say breakfast kills?
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Oklahoma_Mike Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline With two on the ground love can be found Posts: 426 Tulsa Oklahoma Area Gender:	Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!! Reply #2 - 08/14/05 at 11:46:31 torque wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08: Are you trying to say breakfast kills? If it is micky D' it will in more than one way!!!!
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sluggo

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #3 - 08/14/05 at 11:50:03

your words ring true, the only thing you got wrong is this. THERE ARE NO TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS, ONLY TRAFFIC COLLISIONS. all collisions are preventable, they are not accidents, and accident is when you laff and crap you pants. Shocked

i work with the washington state traffic safety commision, so i am fully aware of the stats.

here's an ironic story. set the way back machine to 1980. i had a series of speeding tickets, all less than 5%percent over the limit, because of this my license was suspended. i drove for three years without so the tickets would clear record. fast forward to three years ago. i joined the traffic safety department, just guess who my boss turned out to be? the guy who put me on probation, then suspended my license.

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SINGLES RULE, HARLEYS DROOL

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Oklahoma_Mike Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline With two on the ground love can be found Posts: 426 Tulsa Oklahoma Area Gender:	Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!! Reply #4 - 08/14/05 at 12:02:07 sluggo wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08: your words ring true, the only thing you got wrong is this. THERE ARE NO TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS, ONLY TRAFFIC COLLISIONS. all collisions are preventable, they are not accidents, and accident is when you laff and crap you pants. SOOOO True!!!
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Paladin.

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #5 - 08/14/05 at 13:19:44

I started driving on the public highways in November, 1962. Got my first motorbike in '64. My first sports car in '65 in which I had my first accident (spun out.) My second and last vehicle disabling accident was being rear-ended at a traffic signal in late '66 - early '67. My last actual moving violation that I was cited for was in '65. (the cite in the '80's was bogus, but if it is your word vs. the cop you lose.)

I'm not about to change my habits -- they have kept me out of trouble for quite a while and I like sticking with what has been proven to work.

Statistics are meaningless -- they speak of the averages without regard to individual differences. Your cited page gives the odds of my dying on a pedal bicycle as other than zero. That I do not ride a pedal bike is not a consideration in citing the odds as I am lumped in with everyone else.

The Bell System presents a pyramid of death -- at the bottom are thousands of unsafe acts, topped by far fewer accidents, resulting in even fewer injuries, peaked with a few deaths. Again it is statistics, but this time it relates to everyone. We are all guilty of unsafe acts -- usually because we are in a hurry or because the likelyhood of injury is small or the likely injury will be small.

An unsafe act is a gamble with the odds in your favor; usually you win and get away with the act. Eventually, if you continue with the unsafe acts, you will get caught and you will be involved in an accident.

(I'm ignoring the difference between an accident and a laydown and a collision.)

Once involved in an accident you will be subjected to the possibility of an injury. We can take various measures to mitigate injuries in the event of an accident. When I was transporting my young children I did so in a 5,000 pound 1976 Ford LTD with hydralic rams on the bumpers and steel beams in the doors. This is the class of vehicle often seen outside of bars at 1:30 am -- for a very good reason: the risk of injury in the event of a collision are greatly reduced. You can trade risky behaviour for protection and stay at the same level of risk of injury.

Riding a motorcycle takes away the protection of a cage. *IF* you ride a motorcycle as the average person drives a car your risk of injury is *FAR* greater. The only way to maintain a reasonably low risk of injury on a motorcycle is to (1) wear protective clothing and (2) ride at a far reduced level of unsafe behaviour.

(1) is only partially effective as compared with riding in a steel cage. Which means as a motorcyclist you need to be above average as to defensive driving/riding -- if you wish to avoid an elevated risk of injury.

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Paladin.

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #6 - 08/14/05 at 13:39:13

www.m-w.com defines an accident as: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance. ALternately, an accident is: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance.

When it comes to motor vehicle "accidents" they are practically all foreseen. Even if the event is unplanned and results in a lay-down or a collision it was foreseen and thus not an accident in the primary sense of the word.

Using the second sense, being pulled over for speeding is an 'accident'.

Laying a bike down is not alway unfortunate -- it definitely beats having a collision. Depending on circumstances it can be no big deal or expected or deliberate. A lay-down generally involves a gradual slowing to a stop.

You want to avoid a collision -- that is a sudden stop that is usually rather painful. I did one on a pedal bike in '61 (dented the side of a car!) and that was enough.

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Oklahoma_Mike

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #7 - 08/14/05 at 18:06:09

Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

www.m-w.com defines an accident as: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance. ALternately, an accident is: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance.

When it comes to motor vehicle "accidents" they are practically all foreseen. Even if the event is unplanned and results in a lay-down or a collision it was foreseen and thus not an accident in the primary sense of the word.

Using the second sense, being pulled over for speeding is an 'accident'.

Laying a bike down is not alway unfortunate -- it definitely beats having a collision. Depending on circumstances it can be no big deal or expected or deliberate. A lay-down generally involves a gradual slowing to a stop.

You want to avoid a collision -- that is a sudden stop that is usually rather painful. I did one on a pedal bike in '61 (dented the side of a car!) and that was enough.

It may be just me but I don't see your point in all this? So you are saying the terminology I used is wrong that’s nice, but are you saying you disagree? As far as statistics being meaning less. I’ve meet a lot of broke people at the casinos that believe just like you. The only time the statistics lie is when you ignore them. From the day that your were born you are a statistics it is up to you to be the good kind. 8)

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Paladin.

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #8 - 08/14/05 at 21:00:30

The terminology everyone uses is faulty. They say "accident" as if it were not avoidable. 90+% of "accidents" are avoidable.

Statistics are valid only for groups. They cannot say anything about any particular individual. The moment you try to apply statistics to an individual the statistics are meaningless. That is why the quote: "There are lies, darned lies, and statistics."

The purpose of defensive riding is to void the "statistics."

My point is that the "statistics" are about the average driver/rider. If you are not average then the statistics are null and void. If you drink and ride at excessive speed the statistics lie -- you are far more likely to have an injury collision. If you ride sober, obey the speed limits, watch out for the mistakes of others the statistics are a lie -- you are far less likely to have an injury collision.

I do not drink and ride -- not because of statistics, but because drinking impairs judgement and makes riding unsafe. I do not ride at excessive speed -- not because of statistics, but because speed reduces reaction time and increases braking distance and makes riding unsafe. I scan every roadway entering into my path of travel for vehicles that may try to intersect my path -- not because of statistics but because I have seen too many vehicles blow stop signs or signals.

Just out of curiosity, what habits am I supposed to change?

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Oklahoma_Mike

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #9 - 08/15/05 at 04:20:26

Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

The terminology everyone uses is faulty. They say "accident" as if it were not avoidable. 90+% of "accidents" are avoidable.

Statistics are valid only for groups. They cannot say anything about any particular individual. The moment you try to apply statistics to an individual the statistics are meaningless. That is why the quote: "There are lies, darned lies, and statistics."

The purpose of defensive riding is to void the "statistics."

My point is that the "statistics" are about the average driver/rider. If you are not average then the statistics are null and void. If you drink and ride at excessive speed the statistics lie -- you are far more likely to have an injury collision. If you ride sober, obey the speed limits, watch out for the mistakes of others the statistics are a lie -- you are far less likely to have an injury collision.

I do not drink and ride -- not because of statistics, but because drinking impairs judgement and makes riding unsafe. I do not ride at excessive speed -- not because of statistics, but because speed reduces reaction time and increases braking distance and makes riding unsafe. I scan every roadway entering into my path of travel for vehicles that may try to intersect my path -- not because of statistics but because I have seen too many vehicles blow stop signs or signals.

Just out of curiosity, what habits am I supposed to change?

Very good point!

You ask what habits I think you are supposed to change? Those of the vehicles that blow stop signs or signals.

My point is that we seem to be a rather safe group and that safety has a way of spreading if we let it. What it boils down to is that almost everyone wants to live. If we talk about it to our kids, friends and family then maybe one of them will chose not to answer that phone while driving and thus save the life of someone else who’s husband will in turn not go Angry

drinking and driving :'( to erase the memory of his wife being killed and thus kill someone else and so on.

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Savage_Rob

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #10 - 08/15/05 at 06:02:41

I believe this speaks to the demographic of the folks on this site too. We tend not to be the front-wheelie crotch-rocket types and a large number of us are in our 40's, 50's, 60's or even more experienced. To me, the age often says one or more of three things: (1) We've calmed down a bit and take life a little more casually. (2) We've learned we're not immortal and that we heal more slowly than we did decades ago. (3) The fact that we're here means we've either developed some better habits or are lucky and either one is valuable.

I know, it was a slight derailment of the topic but I thought it was relevant.

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Oklahoma_Mike

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #11 - 08/15/05 at 06:44:49

Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

I believe this speaks to the demographic of the folks on this site too. We tend not to be the front-wheelie crotch-rocket types and a large number of us are in our 40's, 50's, 60's or even more experienced. To me, the age often says one or more of three things: (1) We've calmed down a bit and take life a little more casually. (2) We've learned we're not immortal and that we heal more slowly than we did decades ago. (3) The fact that we're here means we've either developed some better habits or are lucky and either one is valuable.

I know, it was a slight derailment of the topic but I thought it was relevant.

I think it is very relevant sir. Thank you for your input. 8)

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Paladin.

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #12 - 08/15/05 at 06:51:22

Oklahoma_Mike wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

.... What it boils down to is that almost everyone wants to live.....

At what cost?

Several years ago someone asked what is your favorite song. Mine is the opening theme from *M*A*S*H*.

I am going to die. I can choose how I will die, but most likely the how will not be my prefered choice. (Prefered choice is being shot at age 104 by a rightfully jealous husband.)

While I might not choose the manner of my demise, I can choose how I will live. I can choose to engage in risky behaviour. I can choose to enjoy my life rather than extend it at any cost. This is why I ride -- to enjoy what life I have left. I can choose to continue riding as long as I am physically able (not blind or senile.) I so choose to continue riding by riding defensively as I have been trained to do by the U.S. Military and the Bell System and it's broken parts.

Others may choose to enjoy life by riding a bit more briskly than I do. They do so knowing that such behaviour carries a greater risk of an unintended dismount and generally wear clothing so that such a dismount is otherwise uneventual. Or not, accepting that a little loss of skin and a little pain is worth the joy of riding with the wind caressing your skin.

Others may feel that in the event of a collision that would leave them disabled life would not be worthwhile -- and they may choose to ride without a helmet; because they enjoy the feel of the wind. And that joy is worth more than life.

That you, at age 30, hold life as something precious does not mean that I, 15 months shy of 60 with heart problems and fading eyesight, will feel the same. IMO, enjoying life is far more important than life itself.

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Savage_Rob

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Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!!
Reply #13 - 08/15/05 at 08:38:47

Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

At what cost?

Several years ago someone asked what is your favorite song. Mine is the opening theme from *M*A*S*H*.

If I remember correctly, it's something like:

The game of life is hard to play
Gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
And this is all I have to say
Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please...

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Paladin. Serious Thumper Offline Hamster Posts: 4929 Sunny Southern California Gender:	Re: CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS AND LIVE !!!!!!!! Reply #14 - 08/15/05 at 13:23:51 The verse that haunts me is: The sword of time will pierce our skins It doesn't hurt when it begins But as it works its way on in The pain grows stronger...watch it grin I am not able to do a lot of what I used to do.
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