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Never had a hint of ANY carb/petcock issue
Run out of gas occasionally when I have gas
Struggles to stay running at stoplights
Bog choke and sputter when going to reserve
Had carb issues that turned out to be petcock
Had poor running issues that were petcock
Had jetting/mod tuning issues that were petcock
Me Raptor -- me not got any of the above now


« Last Modified by: Oldfeller--FSO on: 08/27/12 at 10:44:22 »

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Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite (Read 1306 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
08/24/12 at 08:01:08
 

I was asked by Groupus why nobody had ever raised the issue of the stock vac petcock being a piece of shite.


"My goodness !!" sez I  "Perhaps we need another petcock war as none of the current crop of newbies has ever seen nor read that the Suzuki Savage Stock Vac Petcock Is A Piece of Shite".

(amazing, ain't it)

I will quote the illustrious Serowbot's Axiom:

1/3 of the people have already had issues with the POS vac petcock
1/3 of the people will soon have an issue with the POS vac petcock
1/3 of the people (who ride bone stock and rather slowly) will never have an issue with the POS vac petcock because they never go past half throttle, ever.


If you want to raise the odds of having an issue with your vac petcock to NEAR CERTAINTY LEVELS -- just put a low resistance air filter system on your bike.  It will make your bike run better by lowering your air intake resistance (which is another way of saying "lower your system's input vacuum level" and thereby making sure your vac sucker will screw up on you).

Or, you can simply wait.   Somewhere between 7-15 years of use and ALL FIVE of the KNOWN VAC PETCOCK FAILURE MODES will come in turn to sit on your shoulder one right after another and shite a streak down the back of your leather jacket.

Me, I think vac petcocks should be removed as soon as they are seen on anybody's bike in order to keep from damaging your engine.

You see, when you have those little "trucking along at a good speed and suddenly the bike chokes off and dies on me" episodes you are leaning out your engine mightily during the protracted choking and coughing and dyeing, which does some minor progressive damage to your piston.
Huh      But some of you don't learn, and keep on doing it for years .....    

So, what can be done about these piece of shite stock petcocks?

They are nothing but trouble, you know.


So how can YOU overcome your "barriers to intelligent action" and DO something about your evil vac sucker?

Denial isn't a long term option (although oil consumption and piston slap is, apparently)



Grin      Let the festivities begin ......
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« Last Edit: 08/24/12 at 23:28:32 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Cavi Mike
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #1 - 08/24/12 at 08:29:06
 
Maybe there should be a link when you register on the forum that takes you to a page with all of the must-reads like oil suggestions, petcock issues, tire fitments etc. Then, when people keep making threads about these issues they can just be locked and the user warned to RTFM.


And by the way, I haven't even fired up my bike yet and I went with the Raptor petcock. I have read more than enough on here about the hassles with the stock unit to be bothered with it.
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #2 - 08/24/12 at 08:36:53
 
The raptor petcock mod was the first thing I did to mine.   I actually ordered mine before I had even taken delivery of the bike, because of all the research I did on this forum before buying mine used.

R.F.
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #3 - 08/24/12 at 08:37:59
 
OF

I made the switch to the Raptor Petcock not because I was having trouble....but I like rocking it "Old School" and want to avoid potential trouble.  The less that I have to go wrong....the better I feel about it.  I am seriously considering getting rid of my kickstand safety switch and clutch switch for the same reason.  They work fine right now - but I hope this is a bike that I keep riding for the next 15-20 years....who knows?

Perhaps we (somebody) should make a sticky that is a "SAVAGE PRIMER COURSE" for the new members to read before they start jumping off to the other threads.  It could include the basic maintenance and reliability issues (petcock, cam chain tensioner, oil, idle speed, etc.).  I know that the Index you put in the Technical Section helps someone to find help when they know what their problem is....but maybe it would help if we had an introduction to the bike that explains the common strengths and weaknesses of this bike.
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #4 - 08/24/12 at 10:08:32
 
Dave wrote on 08/24/12 at 08:37:59:
Perhaps we (somebody) should make a sticky that is a "SAVAGE PRIMER COURSE" for the new members to read before they start jumping off to the other threads.  It could include the basic maintenance and reliability issues (petcock, cam chain tensioner, oil, idle speed, etc.).  I know that the Index you put in the Technical Section helps someone to find help when they know what their problem is....but maybe it would help if we had an introduction to the bike that explains the common strengths and weaknesses of this bike.
 

Here... pour your heart out...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #5 - 08/24/12 at 10:15:15
 
Vacuum petcocks have been around on countless motorcycles and scooters for at least thirty years. If they are so problematical, why have there never been any recalls or notifications from the NTSB about them? They are even common on two-stroke 50 cc scooters, which run pretty much all the time at wide-open throttle, and on which crankcase vacuum seems to keep them open well enough.

The claim that one-third of people with vacuum petcocks have had problems comes from a self-selected and skewed database. Of the total Savage/S40 motorcycles produced, only a fairly small proportion are on this board (Yes, I know that is an unprovable statement.). Only those with problems ever bother to post about them. You seldom see a post that says "My vacuum petcock works fine and has done so all the years I have owned this motorcycle."

In any case the "problem" of the vacuum petcock is slowly going away, as more and more motorcycles are going with fuel injection. Of course, then there will be complaints about failing electric fuel pumps.
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Eschew obfuscation.

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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #6 - 08/24/12 at 12:39:04
 

VOTE FOR AS MANY AS FIT YOUR SITUATION

Here is a new poll to help answer Charon's request for fresh "current" information.

Here is the link to the last poll taken.    http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1286789339


================


And just for Charon, in thanks for his raising the question of vac petcock recalls     Cheesy      

https://www.google.com/search?q=vacuum+petcock+recall&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&clien...

and here are the service notices/service bulletins

fficial&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=vacuum+petcock+service+notices&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USShockedfficial&client=firefox-a
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« Last Edit: 08/24/12 at 14:05:45 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #7 - 08/24/12 at 13:57:25
 
My votes clarified:

Thumper: Had high speed cut outs as the only petcock related issue.  I promise that it was petcock related as I performed various WTF tests, long before the magic post of how to test was whelped.

Mad Hamish: Just did it because I like how much easier it is to get the tank off.


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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #8 - 08/24/12 at 18:16:37
 
Charon - FSO wrote on 08/24/12 at 10:15:15:
Vacuum petcocks have been around on countless motorcycles and scooters for at least thirty years. If they are so problematical, why have there never been any recalls or notifications from the NTSB about them? They are even common on two-stroke 50 cc scooters, which run pretty much all the time at wide-open throttle, and on which crankcase vacuum seems to keep them open well enough.

The claim that one-third of people with vacuum petcocks have had problems comes from a self-selected and skewed database. Of the total Savage/S40 motorcycles produced, only a fairly small proportion are on this board (Yes, I know that is an unprovable statement.). Only those with problems ever bother to post about them. You seldom see a post that says "My vacuum petcock works fine and has done so all the years I have owned this motorcycle."

In any case the "problem" of the vacuum petcock is slowly going away, as more and more motorcycles are going with fuel injection. Of course, then there will be complaints about failing electric fuel pumps.

You're confusing safety with tenure. Vac petcocks exist to prevent fuel spills from a stuck float and for no other reason. Obviously you're never gonna see a safety recall on something that is a safety measure unless it stops being safe.

The more complicated you make something, the sooner it will fail. When it's tied to the most complicated system on the the bike, the more difficult it will be to diagnose the problem.
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #9 - 08/24/12 at 18:43:50
 
I voted the "have stock petcock and never had a problem". Now I know that may bring Mr. Murphy knocking on my back door at 3:00am tomorrow night,but for now everything is smooth as silk Sherlock.

Mine's a 1996 with exhaust and jetting work. Just under 12,000 miles,3400 of those put on by me in the last 3 months and running 60-70 mph and mostly 45 miles at time.
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #10 - 08/24/12 at 20:21:11
 
Does "struggle to stay running" apply when the ambient temperature is under 40 degrees? Roll Eyes  I voted no problem, but plan on getting a raptor to replace the vacuum when it goes bad (or I get tired of cussing it taking the tank off).
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #11 - 08/24/12 at 20:47:11
 
Charon - FSO wrote on 08/24/12 at 10:15:15:
Vacuum petcocks have been around on countless motorcycles and scooters for at least thirty years. If they are so problematical....



Perhaps we have a situation here of, "Not all vacuum operated petcocks are created equal."

Maybe ours happen to made by a low quality vendor......
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #12 - 08/24/12 at 22:08:25
 
First off, I don't know what an Axiom is, but I can assure you I did not sit on Serowbot's.  Grin I experienced a GAS STARVATION problem. I went through the petcock and saw nothing wrong. Tank clean. Clamps in place on all hoses. Opened up carb...nothing there, either. I don't exactly remember how it came up, but someone here recommended the Raptor. Now I did my homework (and mechanic work). This is not my first time around a bike and being assured it was a good fit at a savings of at least 60% from stock I tried it. I'm sorry it doesn't suit some people on here, but I have had NO FUEL STARVATION problems since. Serowbot says he has had problems with rubber caps degrading, but I bought a pack at Auto Zone and used them. After thousands of miles I have no problem with that, either. Now Serowbot just reported what happened to him. He didn't go off on a rant and say I was a victim of "Raptor paronoia". Or call anyone stupid for using rubber caps. Thanks Bot, Vers, and some of the other experienced guys who take into account as many factors as possible before they give advice. And thanks for those who honestly try to help. It is appreciated. IF you need a Raptor or just WANT one be aware that you can go further before hitting reserve and shorter afterwards--and it is MANUAL. Yamaha part number 5LP-24500-01-00. Mine was $25.  Smiley

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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #13 - 08/24/12 at 22:17:03
 
Dave, I just went back over some posts, and I totally disagree with disconnecting the kickstand safety. I know of at least one guy who left his down and broke a leg in his first left hand curve. I am NOT fussing. But I want you to be safe. Sticking the kick into asphalt at speed is similar to running over a golf ball at full lean in a curve. Again, not fussing. Just think about it. And now, on to Petcock Wars. Smiley
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Re: Stock Vac Petcock is a piece of shite
Reply #14 - 08/24/12 at 22:50:16
 
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=vacuum+petcock+recall&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&clien...


Anybody recognize our little vac unit in this ugly police line up of recalled criminal vac petcocks .....    

ugly bunch of little vacsuckers, ain't they?



http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2008/04/04/honda-recalls-vt600-vt750-vtx1300/

http://forums.midatlanticxriders.com/index.php?topic=91.0

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/fuel-carb-related/10344-vacuum-fuel-petcock-rec...

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=General&action=display&thread=...

http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/72-technical-discussion/116970-any-vt600-own...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=18092.0

http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.php?mode=topicreview&t=84866&tro=1

Now this last thingie with the paperclip on it is a leetle tricky -- click on it and save it to your desktop, then rename it from .zip to .pdf, then it will open into the VERY MOST INTERESTING recall notice Routy or Charon has ever ever read.

(it involves a US Government recall for FIRE and risk of BURNING MOTORCYCLES
due to the vac petcock unit's diaphragm actively dribbling gasoline on a hot engine !!!!)      


                                 .... now where the heck have I ever heard that around here ???
     Grin
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