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Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test (Read 1031 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #195 - 10/20/22 at 18:35:29
 
How am I gonna fix this issue?
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Pitting_4th_Gear.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #196 - 10/20/22 at 18:36:53
 
IMO, this pitting is the result of overloading.  There might not be sufficient lubrication to handle the increased torque, or the material that the gears are made from might not be up to the job, or the tooth profile might not provide sufficient load bearing surface area to distribute the load.  It could be a combination of all three.

The transmission gears rely solely on oil thrown off the connecting rod bearing.  The gears don’t dip into the sump, and the pressure feed into the hollow shafts only provides oil to the bores of the gears.  None of that pressure fed oil is getting into the gear mesh.

The gears on the input shaft block the gears on the output shaft from the oil being thrown off the rod bearing.  The larger input gears (4th & 5th) operate at a much higher velocity due to their larger circumference.  At high speed, the velocity of the gear teeth is very high, and any oil that gets thrown onto the teeth must overcome high centrifugal force in order to stay on the teeth and run through the mesh.  At high speed the load is also highest, so the tooth pressure is at max.  The perfect storm.

The old 4-speed has gears that are more robust.  The teeth are wider and thicker.  If I’m lucky, the material they used in the old days was better (like maybe 4340 instead or 4130 or something like that).

I would be forever grateful if any of you with engines on the deck could take a peek into the trans.  You can see all the input gears through the opening in the case.  Do any of you have pits in your gears?  Are there pits like the ones shown in my pictures?  If you have pits, please post some photos, and maybe provide whatever history you have on the engine (4-speed, 5-speed, oil used, mileage, how it was operated, mods, etc.).
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #197 - 10/20/22 at 18:37:32
 
The knock-off PWK has performed flawlessly throughout this project.  It never needs adjustment.  Starts fast, idles smooth, excellent cruising, perfect WOT performance, and superb fuel economy.  No surging, minimal afterfire (cackle crackle).

It’s pretty dirty on the outside.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #198 - 10/20/22 at 18:38:01
 
But the inside is pristine.
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Inetrior_Clean.jpg

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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #199 - 10/20/22 at 18:38:33
 
The slide has some wear-thru on the edges of the chrome plating but it still operates smooth.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #200 - 10/20/22 at 18:39:02
 
The slide needle looks great, no discernable wear.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #201 - 10/20/22 at 18:39:33
 
The slide channel in the carb body has a tiny bit of scoring typical of a slide type carb.  As I mentioned, the operation is smooth.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #202 - 10/20/22 at 18:40:09
 
The LCGP muffler is lookin a bit funky but I assure you it will polish up nicely.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #203 - 10/20/22 at 18:40:47
 
And the Mac header is a bit stained from rides in the rain on muddy roads.  It will clean up beautifully with a little Skotchbrite and a coat of VHT.  I love this Mac header with the black flame sprayed coating
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #204 - 10/20/22 at 18:41:22
 
The duplex rear pulley bearing is as smooth as the day I installed it, and it still looks good to.  Score one for the Chinese.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #205 - 10/20/22 at 18:42:03
 
The Big Bore 4-speed is in my bike now and it has about 300 miles on it.  It’s a special contraption with a pop-top piston, not a flat-top.  It will probably make a bit less steam than the 97mm flat-top, but about the same amount of steam as the 94mm flat-top.  While I test that engine, I’m gonna try to figure out a fix for this transmission issue.

I hope this post is beneficial to some of you.  This was a great project and I really enjoyed spending hours & hours in the saddle.  I’ve learned a lot.  I intend to come up with a fix for the trans because I much prefer the 5-speed to the 4-speed (based on the limited time I have spent on the 4-speed).  I’ve already got a few ideas and am open to any suggestions that might come my way.

Never a dull moment in HotRod Land.

Mike
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #206 - 10/20/22 at 22:45:23
 
Oooooooops!  I missed the intake port epoxy.  The crack is pretty big now.  It hasn’t failed but it certainly deserves attention.  You can really see the crack.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #207 - 10/20/22 at 22:47:13
 
The edge of the epoxy is also starting to show signs of separation.  What the heck, after over 22,000 miles I think it served me well.  I have to remove the valves to resurface the valve tips so now is a good time to renew the epoxy.  I’ll have to throw it back on the flow bench to make sure I get it right.   That will be fun.  My wife hates all the noise, but I will figure out a way to make it up to her.  She’s the best.

Will also have to repair that 8mm head stud with the special upside-down insert.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #208 - 10/21/22 at 14:08:50
 
If you're piling epoxy deep, you might want to use Rebar. If it is gonna be deep, I like layers. Press the first application onto the metal. Wet it. Wet it Good! ( Lyrics of an old song?), then continue to apply, let it cure,break the surface, get rid of all of it, and leave foot Tooth. Use forty grit, or meaner, Wet That, wet it good! Rinse,repeat. Considering all the things trying to bust it up, maybe some fine Hobby wire for rebar? Hobby shops that sell RC airplane stuff keep, what I call, piano wire. But without any lumps and bumps like rebar has, IDK how helpful it would be.
I put bondo on a Mack cabover, on the eyebrow over a headlight. Beat the flux offa coupla welding rods, and filled about an inch and a half dent. It survived the heat and cold of West Texas and the punishment of the oilfield roads for about five years without cracking. They retired the truck and that ended That experiment.

What is the max depth of your epoxy?
https://acrylgiessen.com/en/high-temperature-epoxy/#:~:text=High%20heat%20epoxy%
2C%20on%20the%20other%20hand%2C%20is,which%20enables%20the%20epoxy%20to%20withst
and%20high%20temperatures.

https://acrylgiessen.com/en/high-temperature-epoxy/#:~:text=High%20heat%20epo...


I know you're a lot better mechanic than I'm ever gonna be, I'm just trying to help.
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Re: Wiseco Flat Top Piston - Installation & Test
Reply #209 - 10/21/22 at 16:02:22
 
My 4 speed motor was in a bike that showed 9800+ miles on it.  Absolutely no other info or history.  You previously asked me to inspect the gears for pitting.  Not a one.  They look clean.  Enough so that I am not going to split the cases.  Well, I guess I should measure the crank play and run out before I say that with too much conviction.  I have 95% of what I need to reassemble this hot rod engine, but I am saddled with too many projects lately.
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