"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," said Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research and corresponding author on the paper

Josie Golding, PhD, epidemics lead at UK-based Wellcome Trust, said the findings by Andersen and his colleagues are "crucially important to bring an evidence-based view to the rumors that have been circulating about the origins of the virus (SARS-CoV-2) causing COVID-19."

"They conclude that the virus is the product of natural evolution," Goulding adds, "ending any speculation about deliberate genetic engineering."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm

For this discussion we pit our resident experts Mn and JoG against people who actually know what the fcuk they are talking about.

The floor is yours JoG and Mn. let's hear your tinfoil hat response to this.

Not manmade..
Maybe..
But, does that mean it's not a Frank Enstein,,built out of bits of meanies, or does that mean a virus wasn't put in a critter and fed different types of challenges, giving it impetus to change
Naturally?
So far, for me, the best answer is
And how coincidental
The Wuhan province has a bio lab, or so I'm seeing in reports, but I've seen lies sold as News, so..
Anyway
Theory is, poor folks working in the lab were stealing test critters, selling them to the market, plausible, imo.

"The coronavirus was first discovered in the late 1960s, we should be more adept to treat or prevent it."

 That's not how virus strains work, they aren't the same.  It's like saying we've known about "cancer" for so long we should be further along and more adept to treat or prevent it.  Except new cancer is found to this day.

"So, without knowing how many have it, it's impossible to calculate the mortality rate."

 That's partially true.  Counting the dead is a good way to calculate mortality rates.  In this case while not every death is directly related to SARS-COV-2, it is clear that at this time, a very large portion of the population exhibits similar symptoms, and die.

 I do not see a reason to believe the US medical care system, without intervention, can supply appropriate medical care to humans exhibiting similar symptoms at the rate that they are now, no matter how or why those symptoms are developed.  Doing what everyone else did, will result in the same outcomes.


"If we only count the symptomatic to calculate the mortality rate, it's Gonna look terrible.. "

 Agreed.  All of the metrics I posted do not do that.

eau de sauvage wrote on 03/27/20 at 21:32:21:

"... Mn. let's hear your tinfoil hat response  ..."

Do you believe:
JFK was boinking MM ?
Ted Kennedy left Mary Jo to drown ?
Someone committed Suicide, with a shot to the head, and hands tied behind their back ?
A resident of Australia is a Free Citizen. Not a Subject of a Monarchy ?
Australia does not, have mandatory detention and offshore processing of asylum seekers, refugees ?
(and this list could be so incredibly long)

If you believe just one of those things,
YOU, should be very careful,
when you look up someone Kilt,
and say; "I see your nuts"

"I didn't see the rates you posted.
But, how are they determined?"

 I put down the metrics in another thread when you asked me to provide my numbers.  All of the math is clearly broken down in each source material:

http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.6.2000110
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/20-0146_article
https://smw.ch/article/doi/smw.2020.20203
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/sa...
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762130


 I use an average from each of these.  Grab a calculator, this won't take more than a day to run the numbers yourself.

 Extracted data regarding patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 from hospitals.  The primary composite end point was admission to an intensive care unit (ICU), the use of mechanical ventilation, or death.  To calculate death, only take death numbers into account.

 This doesn't mean we know the exact number of people dying specifically and exclusively from SARS-COV-2, but it does mean that it is causing a lot of people to die from lack of available care.  All of these social distancing orders are to reduce medical need.    

 So no we don't know the exact numbers, no more than we do the flu for that matter, but the data and the dead provide insight and that insight is we do not have enough medical care or equipment for whatever is going on, even if the mortality rate from SARS-COV-2 is zero and everyone is wrong.  

 The question is what does evidence support?  As of now it supports that SARS-COV-2 is killing people at a rate faster than we save them.  The specific rates are however not exact.
 

We don't care its man or not made. We know that its slave camp made - that is beyond question.

I love eating exotic animals for sure, alligator, possum, geese, duck, bat, snake etc etc I would eat if they were caught wild, can cooked immediately by an expert. The whole, we got nothing to eat, so we'll eat sewer rats and bats and we got no $$$ to keep em alive and trapped and isolated till the frying pan's ready, so we're gonna kill em and throw them in the same pile as pig meat and chicken meat cos its our only fridge cos we don't got no $$$ cos we're in a slave camp - abso - fcuking - loutely not.
China is a slave camp. Cut em off from the $$$ handed out to the ones running it. In 10 yrs or less they will stop making garbage like this every few years. The slave masters are trying to enslave the entire world. This is just their latest weapon - yea slavery as a weapon.

BTW the "experts" are corrupt. They are here to first propagate and promote, then when it catches public awareness then manage and medicate you to "help" with symptoms of any disease - doesn't even matter what the disease is.

Cool.
Srinath.

Its really funny how the libtards think it matters how many ventilators Trump ordered or what company makes to what quality.

The simple fact is, we see this as a china virus whether trump has recently stopped saying it or not, and simply put we want to vote against the virus, and we want to vote for the biggest D@!ck that's been Fkucing china - AKA Trumps tariffs. The only way I'd change my vote is, if he triples the tariffs on china, then I'd ride faster to the voting station to Vote Trump.

Cool.
Srinath.