Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Loss of power climbing hill (Read 294 times)
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #15 - 08/19/19 at 12:40:26
 
Maybe it was an anomaly.
Hit the hill again, same speed, same gear. If it craps out, next time try fourth.
A one time thing is really tough to diagnose.
I certainly wouldn't try to make mine climb like that.
If it'll climb it and not crap out, I guess it was an anomaly..
If that's how you treat it, okay..
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #16 - 08/19/19 at 12:53:39
 
Compression ratio is fixed but only at peak torque speed , it's less before and after.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #17 - 08/19/19 at 13:05:15
 
batman wrote on 08/19/19 at 12:53:39:
Compression ratio is fixed but only at peak torque speed , it's less before and after.



That's not the first time you've said something I don't understand.
Can you offer a
Readers Digest level explanation?
I always thought the
Compression Ratio was fixed and the result of how much of the cylinder volume is left above the compression ring at TDC.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #18 - 08/19/19 at 13:05:51
 
Torque peak  happens because the cylinder reaches it's highest load of fuel/air mix.  before it reaches that rpm the piston is moving to slow ,as it rises and the intake valve is still open and some of the mix is pushed back in to the intake manifold , after the torque peak the piston is moving to fast to exhaust all the gases from the cylinder thus leaving less room for the incoming fuel charge .  either leads to incomplete loading of the fuel mix and  the compression ratio is lower.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #19 - 08/19/19 at 13:11:37
 
Well, you've been surprising me for a long time and you have an established batting average, and I don't understand how a compression ratio changes, so, if you can point me to something to read or if the explanation isn't too involved, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to understand that.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #20 - 08/19/19 at 13:18:37
 
look above! that's the simple truth, there are other factors involved.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #21 - 08/19/19 at 13:25:52
 
Thanks, I might have learned something,, I'll read it a couple more times.
Thanks
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 396
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #22 - 08/19/19 at 14:23:43
 
I think that you guys are mixing mechanical compression ratio and dynamic compression ratio, and that is where JOG is getting confused. JOG is talking about static mechanical compression ratio which doesn't change. Batman is talking dynamic compression ratio, which will change with rpm and valve timing.

Just pulling numbers out of the air for an example, if you have a 100cc cylinder volume and compress that into just 10cc, that gives a 10:1 mechanical CR. That would give you about 150 psi then. Dynamic compression takes into account the momentum of the intake air which forces more air into that 100cc cylinder. That effect is most pronounced at peak torque rpm, and you may have 190 psi at that rpm which means that the compression ratio is effectively higher. Make sense now? Smiley
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
badwolf
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Ridin' my Lil'
Bagger - 153k miles
so far

Posts: 793
Palm Beach County, FL
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #23 - 08/19/19 at 14:30:05
 
In theory the compression raito is fixed, simple math, BUT, in real life your actual compression can be influenced by many factors way too numerous to list.
I run a stock engine, other than a dyna muffler and white spacer mod. I feel peak torque at 3400 rpm does not care what gearing it is turning. 3400 in 5th on my bike is about 60mph. The stock 4100-4200 at 60 is over 70 on my bike.
I read once a motorcycle uses about 20 hp to do 60 mph on a level road, no wind. Wind and hills, and streamlining make a impact on this.(as anyone who has ridden a bicycle knows) A Gold Wing pulling a trailer needs more power to do the same speed as a crotch rocket.
Everyone rides a little differently.
I do not try to ride fast. On the Interstate you will see me normaly in the right lane doing around 65, even if the speed limit is higher. I also avoid commuter traffic, in my experance commuters aren't driving, there ''late'' they ''can't be late'' and never seem to be paying attention to their driving or what is going on around them.
On state roads I am running in the low 50's, and when the drivers that have to run ''speed limit plus 8'' get behind me I will try to let them pass.
So my high gearing suits my laid-back riding style now that I have retired. I no longer have to top every hill at the speed limit plus. I ride easy and look around trying to enjoy the ride.

A long trip does not mean ''I HAVE to ride 2 days to get there.''

A long trip means ''I GET to ride 2 days to get there.''

Next month I am going to Winston Salem, NC from S. Fla by way of the KSL. NOT the most direct route, but hey ''I know Mo''
If I was in a hurry I would ride my Pacific Coast up I 95 and be there in less than half the time. But it's not my Thumper.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
badwolf
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Ridin' my Lil'
Bagger - 153k miles
so far

Posts: 793
Palm Beach County, FL
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #24 - 08/19/19 at 14:36:14
 
Fast 650 - I think the confusion is , the compression RAITO never changes, your ACTUAL COMPRESSION changes by how much air/fuel mixture gets into the cylnder.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 396
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #25 - 08/19/19 at 14:46:58
 
Give this man a prize. Smiley You just explained it better than I did, but we are on the same page with cylinder filling affecting the pressure.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #26 - 08/19/19 at 14:55:36
 
The Bats explanation was enough for me to come to the above understandings.
Thanks to everyone for their time in edumuhcating me.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
badwolf
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Ridin' my Lil'
Bagger - 153k miles
so far

Posts: 793
Palm Beach County, FL
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #27 - 08/19/19 at 14:59:35
 
And for those who want to REALLY be confused -

http://www.matrixgarage.com/content/why-dynamic-compression-ratio-nearly-useless

And remember, torque is a measured number. Horsepower is caluated  from that using rpm and a math formula.
It was originally defined as 550 foot-pounds per second.
Something to do with horses lifting weight out of a well by the steam engine guy so he could sell his tractors to farmers.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #28 - 08/19/19 at 15:16:46
 
In keeping with most really good threads, I think this one has also gone
If I may
Off
the
Rails..
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Loss of power climbing hill
Reply #29 - 08/19/19 at 20:00:16
 
 just for fun:   Hp = rpm x torque
                         -----------------
                              5250

"compression is fixed but only at peak torque rpm ,it's less before and after"   I was talking about both static and dynamic  compression in the same sentence . sorry for the confusion. we know the static compression of a stock bike is 8.5 , but it isn't achieved until peak rpm (3400rpm) . the dynamic (real world) compression is as I stated less before and after 3400 rpm, for the reasons I stated and other factors.
     The fuel efficiency of the average gasoline motor is about 20 % ,that means that about 80% 0f the fuel that goes through the motor doesn't burn, that's because the fuel needs to be finely atomized to mix with air to  combust , and because of slow piston speed and velocity the quantity is more important ,because quality is poor.(the reason you have a choke at startup)at speeds below 3400rpm . Above that speed the limiting factor becomes the size of the exhaust valve seat opening and the piston speed . The faster you go the more gases are left behind and the less room for the incoming  fuel/ air mix and torque drops off.













         







-                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/20/19 at 07:24:20 by batman »  

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/17/24 at 02:30:42



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Loss of power climbing hill


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.