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12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter (Read 360 times)
philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #30 - 06/08/19 at 15:37:16
 
Yes the infernal window is a goner. The guy at the powder coating place is going to remove the metal piece behind the window too because he doubts the goop holding it in will survive.
When the cases are done and I’m ready to put them on the bike I’ll try to swap those parts out of my nasty old cases.
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07 S40 (Thumpy): 666cc big bore, stage 2 webcam, dyna muffler, 412 shocks, Barnett clutch, Kawasaki ZL900 FE
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #31 - 06/23/19 at 13:30:30
 
I'm now totally convinced that screw extractor bits are and always have been snake oil and hocus pocus bullcrap. In high school I snapped a header bolt on my ATC 200X. My auto shop teacher said use an extractor. After drilling out the center of the bolt I tapped in the extractor and its tip immediately broke off inside the hole. Since it was made of hardened steel the option of completely drilling the bolt out was gone.

Today, ignoring my better judgement, I once again tried to use one of these idiotic things on the screw for the back of the seat. By the time the hole was deep enough for the extractor to bite the head of the screw had no more support and snapped right off. In the end I had to just drill the whole entire screw out.

Extractors are garbage. I've never met anyone who's ever got on to work. It's mythical like the tooth fairy. Maybe once back in the bronze ages a series of totally random circumstances created an ideal situation where such a thing actually worked (by accident) and the legends have been carried through the eons since. And sheisters and charlatans have been profiting off that ever since. I bet back in the wild west traveling salesmen had extractors on offer along with their mystery cure potions.

Never again.  Angry
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #32 - 06/23/19 at 19:36:45
 
e. I bet back in the wild west traveling salesmen had extractors on offer along with their mystery cure potions.


Snake oil and screw extractors

At least snake oil would let a guy get some
Medicine
The wifey unit wouldn't be able to say no to

Blasted
Screw extractor kits ARE a screwing
And could get a salesman strung up.

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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #33 - 06/24/19 at 03:46:19
 
philthymike wrote on 06/23/19 at 13:30:30:
Extractors are garbage. I've never met anyone who's ever got on to work.  Angry


Screw Extractors can work - but not if the screw/bolt was broken off because it is frozen in the hole.  You need to do something to get it loosened up before cranking on the extractor.....penetrating oil and/or heat will often help.
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #34 - 06/24/19 at 05:06:26
 
So there's an alternate universe where the darn things work?
Sure there is. And Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse are real in another universe too.

In this universe what do I use to hold down my seat? A sheet metal screw?
I ask as I'm waiting for the train to work because riding with a loose seat isn't the best idea ever.
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #35 - 06/24/19 at 12:51:00
 
Here's the solution...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet_nut

And I have 6 million other uses for this too.
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #36 - 06/25/19 at 04:03:01
 
philthymike wrote on 06/24/19 at 05:06:26:
So there's an alternate universe where the darn things work?
Sure there is. And Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse are real in another universe too.



If the seat bolt had been broken off because somebody tried to tighten it excessively.....the extractors work just fine (as the bolt is not locked into the threads by rust, galling or cross threading).

When the bolt head breaks off because you tried to remove it and the threads are locked into the frame - the extractor has very little chance of getting the bolt out as it likely cannot provide more torque than the original bolt head did.

In order to get it out (before you broke off the extractor)....you needed to use penetrating oil and/or heat to get the threads to release - then you may have some luck with the extractor.

Since this bike is horribly corroded - it is advisable that you use penetrating oil before you try to remove the bolts......and this should be days or weeks before you try to remove the bolts.

Once an extractor is broken off inside, it becomes much harder.  I have used chain saw sharpening stones in a Dremel to slowly grind the bit out.  Then I continue to use the stone to grind enough of the bolt away on one side so I can see the tops of the threads....then use a punch to loosen the remaining piece of bolt.  It could take an hour or two to get this done on your seat bolt.

If you are very, very careful to get a hole in the center of the stuck bolt and try the extractor....if it doesn't come out stop before you break off the extractor - then use progressively larger drills and you hopefully can get the shell of the bolt out once it is paper thin.

Remember when we all told you what a project this bike was going to be?  A lot of us have been down this road before and know what a challenge it is.
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #37 - 07/02/19 at 17:01:12
 
Rode up to the poweder coating place and picked up my pulley hub and rear brake cover. They came out great! Those two parts are the same metallic grey as the crankcase covers. I can't wait to get all this stuff on the bike. Getting closer. Got the Barnett clutch kit so last pieces of the puzzle are the modified cam chain tensioner and some gaskets.
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #38 - 07/02/19 at 21:22:13
 
Interesting, I had the same experience with the bike I was using for a mock-up. The treaded inert in the seat back was a bear, and I tried the extractor with the similar results, only mine didn't break, it grabbed and stripped the insert. It's a treaded insert in plastic. Finally got it ground, drilled and removed. Over drilled the hole a bit and put a stainless 10-24 t-nut pressed into the plastic. Because it's plastic, you can't apply any heat and it's way to easy to strip it in the plastic. Sent it out for a new cover, did all my seat cushions and am good to go. Just a couple hours wasted.
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #39 - 07/03/19 at 10:52:13
 
You can try a center punch to get the broken extractor out. I have used that method to remove broken taps before. Taps are brittle, a few solid whacks with a punch and they will shatter like glass and the pieces just fall out. If the extractor is just as brittle it will break just like the tap.
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #40 - 07/03/19 at 10:55:32
 
I'll remember that for next time. Thanks!
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Re: Yamaha SR400?
Reply #41 - 07/03/19 at 16:13:48
 
I am an old retired toolmaker from Europe and used screw extractors all the time, never had a problem, but you must drill the correct hole size to make it work. Drilling by hand most likely create a larger hole, this may be the issue. Also, the quality of the steel and hardness of the extractor makes a difference. We had no Chinese junk or cheap Harbor tool product in my days.
PS; I still have some in my toolbox and  should hang on to days after I read your story.
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #42 - 07/05/19 at 10:19:06
 
Thanks but I haven't changed my mind about extractors. They are evil incarnate.

In other news look at the purdy parts!  Cheesy
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20190705_124348.jpg

07 S40 (Thumpy): 666cc big bore, stage 2 webcam, dyna muffler, 412 shocks, Barnett clutch, Kawasaki ZL900 FE
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #43 - 07/05/19 at 10:21:48
 
Another view...

All of these parts was under $200 (blasting, prep + coating). Not as bad as I thought.


Next I am sending the GS550LD cast wheels to the coater.  Cool
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07 S40 (Thumpy): 666cc big bore, stage 2 webcam, dyna muffler, 412 shocks, Barnett clutch, Kawasaki ZL900 FE
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philthymike
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Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Reply #44 - 07/15/19 at 07:10:10
 
Anyone know what sort of goop Suzuki applies to the back of the oil sightglass? Is gooping it necessary?
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