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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
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Message started by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:37:03

Title: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:37:03

This is what winter does to elderly LS650s.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:37:32

Yuck!

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:38:19

Oops forgot inspection....

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:38:50

Seriously?

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 17:40:23

The Titanic is probably in better condition ;D

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by jcstokes on 05/17/19 at 19:23:21

Just like my bike, and I ride away from snow and salted roads, the small conical chips of gravel used to seal our roads have the same effect, winter or summer.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 19:44:03

The winter really messes things up because you ride through salt and crap but don’t dare wash the bike because you don’t want it to freeze up afterwards. Whatever coatings you put on don’t make a lick of difference and the crap Suzuki put on has a short lifespan.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 21:00:31

5A4243465E42534743414F2A0 wrote:

This is what winter does to elderly LS650s.

And all motorcycles should have Dead Kennedys stickers!
Kill kill kill kill kill the poor.... :D
https://youtu.be/zqnaHDdvh5I

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by SoC on 05/17/19 at 21:04:58

Aluminum and salt, not a good combination. Boat owners in any salt water usage can confirm that.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/17/19 at 21:17:03

And Fear stickers too...
https://youtu.be/4ACKEGCvLtI
;D

That’s why I can’t replace my tank!

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by verslagen1 on 05/17/19 at 22:23:44

prevent corrosion, use more stickers. 8-)

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by jcstokes on 05/18/19 at 01:05:09

Is it German for The Krupps, or English for Die Krupps? As for the other sticker, I'm not sure, but it sure was a beautiful white tank. Have you considered using a portable hair drier to soften the stickers, so they can be removed by warming them and peeling them off, without hurting the paint? You could then buy an original safety sticker to replace the others.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/19 at 01:13:44

The store the body shops buy from can sell you Two Stage clear
You can get clear adhesive body panel
Protectors at parts houses.
Cut them and apply After the clear has had time to outgas.
An orbital palm sander to clean up the aluminum.
Some green scrubby pad and a spray bottle of water to put a matte finish on the aluminum,
Paint.

You ABSOLUTELY Must wear carbon filter breathing equipment.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/18/19 at 14:42:41

53405756494442404B14250 wrote:

prevent corrosion, use more stickers. 8-)

That’s the plan 8-)

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/18/19 at 14:45:59

5059494E55515F493A0 wrote:

Those stickers hide ugly touch up job that the previous owner attempted with a color that didn’t match.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/18/19 at 14:51:54

The salt has also caused some bolts to freeze up. Snapped the head off one of the drive pulley cover bolts and today while installing a new AGM battery one the two cheesemetal screws in the battery box lock plate stripped out and had to be drilled.
I need to get my torque wrench and go through all the bolts and screws. Take each out as carefully as possible and apply antisieze and putting them back in at the correct torque specs.
Yay!

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/19 at 19:21:52

Acetone and A.T.F., mixed 50/50 for penetrating oil.
Hit the bolts you're gonna mess with every day for a few days.
An impact will break them out more safely than a wrench.
If you don't have a 1/4" rechargeable, or a compressor and an impact, you can get a handheld that you slap with a hammer.
If you get one of those, test it on a hard surface, no hammer.if it doesn't feel smooth, disassemble and smooth up the ramps.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/19/19 at 06:15:54

213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:

Last night I was looking at torque limiting impact wrenches at Home Depot. Are they worth the extra money?
Also got a set of extraction bits. I managed to wreck the head of the rear seat screw :(
I’m gonna hit all the bolts with penetrating oil and go for a long high RPM ride and let vibration work for me 8-)

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/19 at 20:08:03

One dose of oil won't be enough.
Take your time.
Oil it every day for several days.
It's a lot easier than fixing busted stuff.

The trigger limits torque.

Run it on bolts the same size as the bike has. Waste a few dollars.
See what it feels like.
Beats drilling out busted stuff.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/23/19 at 18:42:31

Time for the big guns. How do you like me now rusty nuts?
:D

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/31/19 at 12:15:22

Can anyone recommend those purdy polished bolt kits seen on Ebay?
Like this one?
https://www.ebay.com/i/372086586751?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=372086586751&targetid=484681427211&device=m&adtype=pla&googleloc=9007224&poi=&campaignid=1497324383&adgroupid=60383707880&rlsatarget=pla-484681427211&abcId=1139456&merchantid=101744200&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl7vdkL3G4gIVE-DICh0Dkgo6EAQYASABEgKnBPD_BwE

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 15:24:58

Got the old ones out?

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/31/19 at 16:16:36

Not the ones I’ve destroyed! ;D

In all seriousness I’m contemplating stripping the bike down to the frame and sending all for powder coating at this point. The more I look the uglier it gets.

I’m putting together a shopping list now. I’m sure in the end it’s probably better to buy a brand new LS650 and swap my really nice engine into that.
I’m looking at buying used parts to replace all corroded beyond belief stuff and sending those out for stripping and coating in one big batch. Once it’s all ready I strip the bike down and send the frame for the refurbishment and then build it back up with all the good parts.
Toss the the remaining crap in the trash.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 16:59:48

Go buy a new one
Pull the engine
Stick your ugly , running engine in it
Ride that while you tinker with the new engine
Swap engines
Reassemble the ugly one, sell it

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 05/31/19 at 20:54:42

While what you say makes perfect sense in many way JOG2 I kinda just put myself on another path.

Went ahead and ordered some crap. Something resembling a plan fell into place.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/04/19 at 15:54:21

Got the estimate for prepping and powder coating the new crankcase covers - $75 for both. Need to pick a color now! 8-)

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/07/19 at 11:05:29

I’m prepping the crankcase covers for powder coating now.
With the clutch cover I need to remove the clutch actuator and arm.
Is the cotter pin the only thing holding it to the case?
Does the the clutch rod lever just slide off the shaft?

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/07/19 at 15:45:50

Nevermind above questions. Figured it out.
Look how clean and nice!

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/07/19 at 15:46:31

My new best friend!

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by Dave on 06/08/19 at 12:39:15

I would imagine you will need to remove the oil window prior to powder coating - if the sandblasting doesn't destroy it I bet the 400 degree heat in the oven will.

If you damage it pushing it out.....you can buy a new one from Suzuki.

LENS, OIL LEVEL 11971-33210

$15.85

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/08/19 at 15:37:16

Yes the infernal window is a goner. The guy at the powder coating place is going to remove the metal piece behind the window too because he doubts the goop holding it in will survive.
When the cases are done and I’m ready to put them on the bike I’ll try to swap those parts out of my nasty old cases.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/23/19 at 13:30:30

I'm now totally convinced that screw extractor bits are and always have been snake oil and hocus pocus bullcrap. In high school I snapped a header bolt on my ATC 200X. My auto shop teacher said use an extractor. After drilling out the center of the bolt I tapped in the extractor and its tip immediately broke off inside the hole. Since it was made of hardened steel the option of completely drilling the bolt out was gone.

Today, ignoring my better judgement, I once again tried to use one of these idiotic things on the screw for the back of the seat. By the time the hole was deep enough for the extractor to bite the head of the screw had no more support and snapped right off. In the end I had to just drill the whole entire screw out.

Extractors are garbage. I've never met anyone who's ever got on to work. It's mythical like the tooth fairy. Maybe once back in the bronze ages a series of totally random circumstances created an ideal situation where such a thing actually worked (by accident) and the legends have been carried through the eons since. And sheisters and charlatans have been profiting off that ever since. I bet back in the wild west traveling salesmen had extractors on offer along with their mystery cure potions.

Never again. >:(

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/23/19 at 19:36:45

e. I bet back in the wild west traveling salesmen had extractors on offer along with their mystery cure potions.

Snake oil and screw extractors

At least snake oil would let a guy get some
Medicine
The wifey unit wouldn't be able to say no to

Blasted
Screw extractor kits ARE a screwing
And could get a salesman strung up.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by Dave on 06/24/19 at 03:46:19

574F4E4B534F5E4A4E4C42270 wrote:

Extractors are garbage. I've never met anyone who's ever got on to work. >:(

Screw Extractors can work - but not if the screw/bolt was broken off because it is frozen in the hole. You need to do something to get it loosened up before cranking on the extractor.....penetrating oil and/or heat will often help.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/24/19 at 05:06:26

So there's an alternate universe where the darn things work?
Sure there is. And Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse are real in another universe too.

In this universe what do I use to hold down my seat? A sheet metal screw?
I ask as I'm waiting for the train to work because riding with a loose seat isn't the best idea ever.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 06/24/19 at 12:51:00

Here's the solution...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet_nut

And I have 6 million other uses for this too.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by Dave on 06/25/19 at 04:03:01

5B4342475F43524642404E2B0 wrote:

So there's an alternate universe where the darn things work?
Sure there is. And Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse are real in another universe too.

If the seat bolt had been broken off because somebody tried to tighten it excessively.....the extractors work just fine (as the bolt is not locked into the threads by rust, galling or cross threading).

When the bolt head breaks off because you tried to remove it and the threads are locked into the frame - the extractor has very little chance of getting the bolt out as it likely cannot provide more torque than the original bolt head did.

In order to get it out (before you broke off the extractor)....you needed to use penetrating oil and/or heat to get the threads to release - then you may have some luck with the extractor.

Since this bike is horribly corroded - it is advisable that you use penetrating oil before you try to remove the bolts......and this should be days or weeks before you try to remove the bolts.

Once an extractor is broken off inside, it becomes much harder. I have used chain saw sharpening stones in a Dremel to slowly grind the bit out. Then I continue to use the stone to grind enough of the bolt away on one side so I can see the tops of the threads....then use a punch to loosen the remaining piece of bolt. It could take an hour or two to get this done on your seat bolt.

If you are very, very careful to get a hole in the center of the stuck bolt and try the extractor....if it doesn't come out stop before you break off the extractor - then use progressively larger drills and you hopefully can get the shell of the bolt out once it is paper thin.

Remember when we all told you what a project this bike was going to be? A lot of us have been down this road before and know what a challenge it is.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/02/19 at 17:01:12

Rode up to the poweder coating place and picked up my pulley hub and rear brake cover. They came out great! Those two parts are the same metallic grey as the crankcase covers. I can't wait to get all this stuff on the bike. Getting closer. Got the Barnett clutch kit so last pieces of the puzzle are the modified cam chain tensioner and some gaskets.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by SoC on 07/02/19 at 21:22:13

Interesting, I had the same experience with the bike I was using for a mock-up. The treaded inert in the seat back was a bear, and I tried the extractor with the similar results, only mine didn't break, it grabbed and stripped the insert. It's a treaded insert in plastic. Finally got it ground, drilled and removed. Over drilled the hole a bit and put a stainless 10-24 t-nut pressed into the plastic. Because it's plastic, you can't apply any heat and it's way to easy to strip it in the plastic. Sent it out for a new cover, did all my seat cushions and am good to go. Just a couple hours wasted.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by Fast 650 on 07/03/19 at 10:52:13

You can try a center punch to get the broken extractor out. I have used that method to remove broken taps before. Taps are brittle, a few solid whacks with a punch and they will shatter like glass and the pieces just fall out. If the extractor is just as brittle it will break just like the tap.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/03/19 at 10:55:32

I'll remember that for next time. Thanks!

Title: Re: Yamaha SR400?
Post by FlyingH on 07/03/19 at 16:13:48

I am an old retired toolmaker from Europe and used screw extractors all the time, never had a problem, but you must drill the correct hole size to make it work. Drilling by hand most likely create a larger hole, this may be the issue. Also, the quality of the steel and hardness of the extractor makes a difference. We had no Chinese junk or cheap Harbor tool product in my days.
PS; I still have some in my toolbox and should hang on to days after I read your story.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/05/19 at 10:19:06

Thanks but I haven't changed my mind about extractors. They are evil incarnate.

In other news look at the purdy parts! :D

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/05/19 at 10:21:48

Another view...

All of these parts was under $200 (blasting, prep + coating). Not as bad as I thought.

Next I am sending the GS550LD cast wheels to the coater. 8-)

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/15/19 at 07:10:10

Anyone know what sort of goop Suzuki applies to the back of the oil sightglass? Is gooping it necessary?

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by verslagen1 on 07/15/19 at 08:09:15

3E2627223A26372327252B4E0 wrote:

Anyone know what sort of goop Suzuki applies to the back of the oil sightglass? Is gooping it necessary?

I used RTV, might have been hondabond.
I don't think anything holds it in otherwise.

Title: Re: 12 y/o LS650 ridden in winter
Post by philthymike on 07/15/19 at 08:29:38

It fits in place pretty tightly. Took a decent amount of pressure to seat it all the way. That and the oil isn't under pressure behind it I was wondering if the goop was ovekill.

I'll get some of that hondabond stuff to be on the safe side though.