Eegore wrote on 03/13/19 at 20:21:14:


I DON"T DO THAT. there's NO income tax in Texas. I do pay federal income taxes though, so that's a bit of a difference I guess.  And I know that there are citizens that work under the table. What about them?  and some non-citizens do pay payroll taxes for SS and Medicare that they don't qualify for.   And there are several citizens that don't pay income tax, spouses that don't work, 18 - 26 year olds that live at home and don't work enough to pay income taxes, poor Americans that don't make enough to pay income tax....

Eegore wrote on 03/14/19 at 16:11:18:



but those homeless fit my definition of having residency.  

my point to all this is, citizenship is arbitrary, a mere accident of birthplace. So why are you all so die hard on making that the end all be all about who gets to vote and contribute to the governance of an area?  

every other quality you are fine with, but an accident of birthplace... that's what you're hanging your governance on?

oh, and yeah, they broke the law.. it's a MISDEMEANOR

"The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor according to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which prohibits non-nationals from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer, and also prohibits non-....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_entry

people with misdemeanors can vote...  

" don't believe that, how do they pay none of those taxes? "

 I already addressed this and you responded to it:

"People living illegally, not paying taxes except for sales tax when they buy something with money they acquired without paying income tax as they are undocumented?"

 To clarify:

 Sales tax is meant to convey taxes, State, City, Private or Federal that is imposed as a percentage of the purchase of goods.  "Except sales tax" is meant to convey undocumented immigrants contribute to sales tax but not to other taxes.

 So I will roll with the "accident of birthplace" as I refer to it as "Birthplace Lottery".  

 The question I have is more specifically directed towards your statement here:

 "no, you'd have to prove residency via documentation, just like I had to in order to vote in Texas for Texas state and local things."

 This makes sense.  The issue is that I am referring to what is literally called "Undocumented Immigrant".  How does an "Undocumented" or what I have referred to as "Illegal" immigrant meet the standards of "residency via documentation" ?

 As far as I know we have a process for this.

 What the concern is, for me, is that people with no documentation can vote but without verification/registration.  

 Or in other words:

"it's not a place you are visiting for a day, a week, 2 years....., it's a place you've decided to make your long term home..."

 How would the voting booth know this if there's no documentation?

Amendment 15 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment 19 The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Amendment 24 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

(For a history of why the 24th Amendment only applies to federal elections, see here).

Amendment 26 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Notice how they all say, the right of citizens shall not be abridged or denied or something to that effect....  not that the PRIVILEGE as some have stated here.... or that aliens don't or can't have that right.....  


“Alien suffrage was quite common during the nineteenth century, coming to a peak in 1875 when twenty-two states and territories granted aliens the right to vote.”237 That ended in the 1920s, at which point all states required citizenship as a condition to voter eligibility.238 Today, every state prohibits noncitizens from voting in federal elections.239 Federal law, too, prohibits aliens from voting in federal elections.240 (federal law... not the constitution... just as a point) There are, however, jurisdictions that allow,241 or seek to allow,242 noncitizens to vote in local elections. And as resident aliens have a significant interest in the locales where they reside, and are subject to other political obligations like taxation, there have been particularly strong arguments in favor of extending suffrage to at least a set of them.243"


http://joshblackman.com/blog/2013/05/09/does-the-u-s-constitution-allow-non-c...

Socialism ends up poorly. I think the better solution to slow or end big corporate donors is to uses the monopoly laws to break up big companies so they don't have so much power.

Matchless G11 wrote on 03/15/19 at 04:14:27:


an excellent idea...  but not a trending one, more and more companies are being allowed to buy each other and consolidate power...

Socialism ends up poorly. I think the better solution to slow or end big corporate donors is to uses the monopoly laws to break up big companies so they don't have so much power.

I can get behind that idea to a point. For example, I believe I read InBev has 30%+ share of the US beer market. At what point does that become a problem? Not sure.