LostArtist wrote on 05/29/18 at 15:48:57:

 what?
so, what time period are you looking at cause You've lost me, I mean, I've only been alive for 40 years so maybe you remember some awfulness I don't, but there have been many studies about why crime went down since the 90's, none of them point to CC 
I really don't know what the heck you are talking about though...  but sure, just keep thinking you are right, no point in arguing with you anyway  GFY

"... The Florida legislature had actually passed a shall-issue concealed carry law in 1985 as well, but it was vetoed by Democratic Governor Bob Graham. So it was not until 1987 that Republican Governor Bob Martinez signed shall-issue concealed carry into law..."

here's the problem you have, is that on national averages, it just doesn't matter. violent crime does not really seem deterred by concealed carry, I'm sure SOME criminals might think about concealed carry before they commit crime, but I doubt that's a vast majority of them, violent crime is mostly a crime of passion, drug induced, or in the moment kind of stuff.

The result has been an explosion in the number of concealed-carry permit holders in the United States, from 2.7 million in 1999 to 14.5 million in 2016. That figure doesn't account for individuals living in states without permitting requirements

so in 1999, there were 2.7 million concealed permits, let's assume (call me out if you have info that that's wrong) that's higher than in the years before it, and violent crime has been reducing since 1992-ish

From 1992 to 2002 violent crime reduced from about 750,000 to about 500,000, so with 2.7 million concealed carry, give or take a million, that's a 250,000 drop

however, since 2002 to 2016 violent crime reduced from 500,000 to 350,000 or so, that's a 150,000 drop with EVEN MORE, like 12 million MORE, concealed carry permits

so why did violent crime reduce more with LESS concealed carry if concealed carry is such a great deterrent?

so yes, all the stories and anecdotes you've heard and are presenting are true, but statistically, the slowdown of violent crime isn't really being affected by even MORE concealed carry permits.

and I really can pull out study after study after study, saying that the more concealed carry, the more crime actually happens. I know, I know, but but anecdote here!  

and in 2015 and 2016, violent crime went UP, with the most concealed carry permits out there until 2017 at least...  I don't have data for that.

so, as much as your assumptions make sense, when scrutinized, they don't hold up, even on a surface level like I did here.

The seems to be 2 types of crime, premeditated and crimes of passion.
Crimes of passion will have no deterrent.
Premeditated is another story and seems to be the crux of the story.
They will be deterred by the fact that there are more cc's out there.
The reduction in car jackings in FL are evidence of this.
But instead you get nut jobs shooting at cars on the hwy.
If a nut job is confronted by police, why would he not shoot it out with them?  Instead they got it in their head there's a soft target out there for him to be famous with.  A school, a mall, doesn't matter let's go there and kill people w/out guns.
I think you would agree that 2015/6 were very contentious times and would explain a rise.

If crime is dropping and cc's are on the rise, while there are many other factors involved you should be able to see that cc's do play a contributing factor.

lets give ALL THE CREDIT to concealed carry, that the whole drop from 2002 to 2016, that 150,000 drop in violent crime to the 14.5 MILLION concealed carry holders.  that means that 150,000 violent criminal were aware and focused enough to be deterred by those 14.5 MILLION potential concealed carry holders.

so 150,000 prevented crimes were caused by 14.5 MILLION concealed carry holders .

150,000 divided by 14.5 MILLION is 0.010714285714286

so 1%

it takes 100 concealed carry holders, to prevent 1 violent crime

if my math is correct, I might not have all that worked out, is it 100 or 1000????

guess it's better than nothing

oh, and violent crime went UP in 2015 and 2016, when there were the most concealed carry permits EVER

just for your entertainment, cause I know you wont' believe it, check this out:

CONCEALED CARRY OF FIREARMS: FACT VS FICTION
https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-fo...

 There are multiple sources that show the number of CCW's do not correlate to reduction of direct violent crime nationwide.  This has been known for a long time, and is part of why those stats aren't used in CCW campaigns.

 On college campus settings however the number of direct violent crimes specifically against women have decreased with the allowance of firearms on campus.  Those stats are used in CCW campaigns as they show favorable results.

 College campus data does not match national data and can not be reliably compared.  Apples and Oranges situation, but lets just keep repeating our points in different words over and over and see if we can convince anyone that national statistics and regional statistics are the same thing.

Just for shistles, isn't our wonderful inner city eg Hartford, Detroit, Cleveland,  Youngstown LA examples of CC (Card Carrying er Conceiled Carry)  places where everyone knows everyone over 10 is carrying (legally or not) and aren't the incredibly high number of gun deaths in those Urban Utopias (compared to upper Darby PA, Concord Ma etc- you know uppah class places) our government has helped to create an argument against the effectiveness of such a program?
Back to baby Robin watching, out of the nest and stretching - wife calls it a toddler Robin

Trippah wrote on 05/31/18 at 08:08:01:

Just for shistles, isn't our wonderful inner city eg Hartford, Detroit, Cleveland,  Youngstown LA examples of CC (Card Carrying er Conceiled Carry)  places where everyone knows everyone over 10 is carrying (legally or not) and aren't the incredibly high number of gun deaths in those Urban Utopias (compared to upper Darby PA, Concord Ma etc- you know uppah class places) our government has helped to create an argument against the effectiveness of such a program? Back to baby Robin watching, out of the nest and stretching - wife calls it a toddler Robin

Would those places you mention, be like, say, Chicago ?

Where a, 'Part' of the population is probably:
"...everyone over 10 is carrying..."

So the next question is, are those carrying,
in a group of people we will call,
'Good' or 'Bad' guys.

Then, which ones,  follow the law.

Then which group has the government NOT ALLOWED, to have/carry a gun.

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 05/30/18 at 20:49:03:



how do you stay logically consistent when in the last 2 years, violent crime has gone up, while CC has gone up as well?