The fervor  pitch by the media, politicians, Hollywood, etc, after a shooting is definitely agenda driven, that is not arguable.....

I am not faulting them for pitching their beliefs at such a time, who doesn't use examples, to bolster their claims, that is how the world works....

What I don't understand, however, is, it seems their argument is the RESULT of the gun......death.

Let say if you pointed a gun at someone, pulled the trigger, and a spew of profanity greeted the victim in the bullseye, would it still be the gun we blame, or the words, or not at all?

So, the argument seems to be death, yes?
The consequences of using a gun, a manufactured product, yes?

Of course we hold the shooter to part, as we should, for he loaded, pointed, and pulled the trigger, that is first degree murder!

So, if its death, then do we count the severity of the results, and we find a solution in restricting that severity, as exampled, banning automatic weapons, yes?
The argument being a one bullet per pull is safer to society, than those who fire faster, yes?
It (single shot gun) still allows for hunting, sport, and defense, without having the same threat against society, right?

So, am I getting this argument, its about how a gun can kill many, is that right?

Seems feasible.

Why do gun rights activist argue against that?
A gun like that seems to be manufactured for only one use, KILLING

Now, please consider this manufactured product, in your argument too.

If we are out to save lives, BTW, I believe it is a wonderful AND worthy thing, that SHOULD separate man from ALL other creatures on earth, his CARING for his fellow man....

Please, look at the stats re: these products, the death associated with them.
These products result in death, daily, and at a greater number too.

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity.

In 2014, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 9,967 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).

Economic Burden:

In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.

Three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.

Global Burden:

In 2012, 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4.0 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption.

In 2014, the World Health Organization reported that alcohol contributed to more than 200 diseases and injury-related health conditions, most notably DSM–IV alcohol dependence (see sidebar), liver cirrhosis, cancers, and injuries.13 In 2012, 5.1 percent of the burden of disease and injury worldwide (139 million disability-adjusted life-years) was attributable to alcohol consumption.

Globally, alcohol misuse was the fifth leading risk factor for premature death and disability in 2010.  Among people between the ages of 15 and 49, it is the first.14 In the age group 20–39 years, approximately 25 percent of the total deaths are alcohol attributable.

Family Consequences:

More than 10 percent of U.S. children live with a parent with alcohol problems, according to a 2012 study.

Underage Drinking:

Prevalence of Underage Alcohol Use:
Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 33.1 percent of 15-year-olds report that they have had at least 1 drink in their lives.

About 7.7 million people ages 12–2018 (20.3 percent of this age group) reported drinking alcohol in the past month (19.8 percent of males and 20.8 percent of females).

Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 5.1 million people18 (about 13.4 percent) ages 12–20 (13.4 percent of males and 13.3 percent of females) reported binge drinking in the past month.

Prevalence of Heavy Alcohol Use: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 1.3 million people18  (about 3.3 percent) ages 12–20 (3.6 percent of males and 3.0 percent of females19) reported heavy alcohol use in the past month.

Consequences of Underage Alcohol Use:
Research indicates that alcohol use during the teenage years could interfere with normal adolescent brain development and increase the risk of developing AUD. In addition, underage drinking contributes to a range of acute consequences, including injuries, sexual assaults, and even deaths—including those from car crashes.

Did you see this number?
In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.
That was in 2010 dollars, I wonder what that is now.....???
That could buy a lot of healthcare, schooling, housing, etc, could it not?

As ugly as a gun killing is, if we are talking results of a manufactured product, we are looking at the wrong product, are we not?

Note: booze is number 3 killer, number 2 being fat, lazy, and diet....
You DO NOT get fat starving from a poor diet.

Number ONE killer.......smokes.
That is an easy fix, and an obvious one to who is breaking the law, they stink, and they exhale smoke, well, duh, you are under arrest!

Well my observation was geared in trying to find out what the criteria is to the gun control argument.
As yet, I have no one offering any reply, one way or the other.

In a sense the void of dialogue is leading to much misconceptions perhaps?

Gun control advocates have, after a decade of speaking what they think is the obvious, yet seeing no movement towards their goals, have learned to save their breath.

Guns are, and have always been, for killing.  Shooting at targets is a sport that allows people to practice speed, accuracy etc without all the bloodshed.  Yes, for some, perhaps many, the sport has replaced the original purpose.  A lot of folks do not want to go hunting etc.

The argument, about restricting the types of weapons (firearms) allowed to the general public is, for gun advocates ,a matter of (again for some) the practical issue that a man (usually) can only kill a few with single load or small magazines before hopefully, someone kills the shooter.  Semi auto and automatic 20+ mags allow the shooter to kill too many.
Pistols and "gangbangers" are an inner city tangential discussion.

Again, as whacko's with machetes have demonstrated lately, people bent on murder without any interest in surviving their attack will have some success.  This doesn't weaken the logic re automatic/semi-automatic weapons, but does point out that humans will always act un-humanely.

I will not go into amendments, as guns lovers have swarmed to the NRA's totally inaccurate depiction.  As cited in another thread was a well expressed statement by a Supreme.  To carry the NRA's position to its logical extreme, citizens should be able to buy, arm and fly B-1 Bombers.

ps As I noted elsewhere, I was unpleasantly surprised last month how much my M-16 (civilian models) shooting accuracy has diminished.

raydawg wrote on 10/04/17 at 14:13:18:

Ray, I had no idea what you were asking.

verslagen1 wrote on 10/04/17 at 15:02:35:

I was gonna' say that...


PS,.. Dawg,.. I know the fear is irrational,... most people probably do intellectually...
But, look at the Muslim travel ban... How many terrorist acts have been executed by immigrants from these banned countries...
9/11,.. 15 of the 19 were Saudis... Trump didn't seek to ban them...
Anyway... we fear lightening, spiders, mice, and flu shots...
No logic...
But if it affects our willingness to interact socially and spend economically... the terrorists are succeeding...
...and it will...  

 Bring in whatever evidence you want, the opposing view will bring in equal amounts.

 I will be honest about it.  I don't want my gun privileges removed because of someone else's actions even though those privileges in the wrong hands will end up with many more dead.

Serowbot wrote on 10/04/17 at 15:31:16:


You say this gun issue is paramount because it strikes terror into people, yes?
Fear is then the motivation for any infringement upon people's freedoms, yes?
Some theories exsist that religion, a god, a need for one, was spawned out of fear, for many were terrorized by nature, etc...

You are saying this in essence.

That's a foundation for a long conversation and I understand your position.