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Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spark (Read 383 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #15 - 09/07/17 at 19:21:51
 
gine is trying to turn over is about 9.50. How do I prove its sparking while the spark plug is in the cylinder? I think that's what you

You won't prove it's firing.
It's not gonna.
But, you Can pull the plug wire, shove a plug in it, ground it, hit start.

Won't fire
Battery low.
Start with the most common, easiest problem that can create the symptoms you're seeing
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #16 - 09/07/17 at 19:41:00
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/07/17 at 19:21:51:
gine is trying to turn over is about 9.50. How do I prove its sparking while the spark plug is in the cylinder? I think that's what you

You won't prove it's firing.
It's not gonna.
But, you Can pull the plug wire, shove a plug in it, ground it, hit start.

Won't fire
Battery low.
Start with the most common, easiest problem that can create the symptoms you're seeing


I pulled the plug and tested the spark while grounding it and it has spark, then I put the spark plug back in and tested the spark with a second plug so it kept its compression and it still sparks. I recorded a video, its a little dark though. https://youtu.be/cZhhWlIGM-k
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #17 - 09/07/17 at 20:38:23
 
That's some right up work, dude.
Thing is, I can't hear the snap, can't see the fire, and the way I expected it to be was pretty much zero. I don't know if that spark will life one off.
The voltage is supposed to be over ten.
I don't remember what someone said it needs to be exactly.

But that's Definitely a blue arc,

You've heard it spinning without a plug.
And with.

Can you hear a distinct rhythm?
If you have compression the engine loads the starter on compression.
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #18 - 09/07/17 at 20:47:51
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/07/17 at 20:38:23:
That's some right up work, dude.
Thing is, I can't hear the snap, can't see the fire, and the way I expected it to be was pretty much zero. I don't know if that spark will life one off.
The voltage is supposed to be over ten.
I don't remember what someone said it needs to be exactly.

But that's Definitely a blue arc,

You've heard it spinning without a plug.
And with.

Can you hear a distinct rhythm?
If you have compression the engine loads the starter on compression.


Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure it sounds the same with and without the spark plug in the cylinder. I'll have to test that again but I'm pretty sure it sounds the same.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #19 - 09/07/17 at 21:23:41
 
It otta not..
Oil in the plug hole is the cheapest easiest quick check.
Hit start
Listen
Pull plug
Hit start
Listen

If you don't hear a distinct rhythm of the starter add oil in the cylinder, leaving the plug out, in gear, push, prove it'll turn over, then hit the starter,
Could be messy, might wanna rag over the hole.
Might foul the plug,,

Have you proven fuel in the bowl?

Since you worked on the carburetor, are you sure it's working?

Once you have compression, if it doesn't fire,use ether.

The battery needs charged.
At rest 12.4 or five is good.
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #20 - 09/08/17 at 21:33:09
 
Charge the battery. At 13+ volts, Hit the ignition. World of difference! Cool
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #21 - 09/09/17 at 18:53:15
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/07/17 at 21:23:41:
It otta not..
Oil in the plug hole is the cheapest easiest quick check.
Hit start
Listen
Pull plug
Hit start
Listen

If you don't hear a distinct rhythm of the starter add oil in the cylinder, leaving the plug out, in gear, push, prove it'll turn over, then hit the starter,
Could be messy, might wanna rag over the hole.
Might foul the plug,,

Have you proven fuel in the bowl?

Since you worked on the carburetor, are you sure it's working?

Once you have compression, if it doesn't fire,use ether.

The battery needs charged.
At rest 12.4 or five is good.


How much oil should I put down the plug hole? I'm assuming like a small cap full of oil or two? I charged the battery yesterday, put it back in the bike, it had 12.45 volts, sprayed some ether in the back of the carb where the air intake hose usually connects, and tried to start it up. It still didn't wanna start up unfortunately. I also noticed, this bike only has 1600 miles on it, so I would assume the piston and everything should be good.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #22 - 09/09/17 at 19:05:18
 
The engine has been sitting long enough to let the oil disappear from the rings and cylinder wall.
Fogging oil is available, but I'd put some oil in and put it in gear and roll it, no spark plug. Just a little oil, enough to get around the piston and wet the wall.
If you want to avoid the chance of screwing yourself , buy the fogging oil.

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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #23 - 09/09/17 at 22:10:03
 
You might try jumper cables and a car battery (car not running).fuel,compression, & spark = start ,your missing one of the three.
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #24 - 09/10/17 at 23:48:23
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/09/17 at 19:05:18:
The engine has been sitting long enough to let the oil disappear from the rings and cylinder wall.
Fogging oil is available, but I'd put some oil in and put it in gear and roll it, no spark plug. Just a little oil, enough to get around the piston and wet the wall.
If you want to avoid the chance of screwing yourself , buy the fogging oil.



I went out and got some fogging oil and sprayed some down the plug hole. Then I went ahead and adjusted the valves because I picked up a feeler gauge while I was out, they ended up being way too tight. Then I decided to pull the carb off completely and look into the side of the cylinder where the carb connects, and I noticed a bunch of small metal shavings. At this point I'm figuring it's the piston ring. Because I have spark, and I have gas/starter fluid, but I don't think I have compression.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #25 - 09/11/17 at 00:00:47
 
Dude, the air/fuel mix leaves the carburetor and goes into the head where valves open and close. You can't see the piston.
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #26 - 09/11/17 at 00:21:07
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/11/17 at 00:00:47:
Dude, the air/fuel mix leaves the carburetor and goes into the head where valves open and close. You can't see the piston.


I know, you can only see the valves.. but thats not the point, there is metal shavings inside of the cylinder. I think it might be the piston ring.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #27 - 09/11/17 at 06:53:29
 
How much of the fogging oil did you use?

Did you ever get it running?

How are you finding the metal shavings?

Do you know anyone who has a scope and can peek into the cylinder?

The rings And cylinder will eat each other without oil.

It's a bummer watching people find us After they have so busily set about trying to start one, especially after so many years of sitting.

IF you have compression it should sound different from one without when the starter is spinning it over.

The compression stroke slows the starter motor and creates a rhythm.

The beauty of it all is
This stuff will fix.

But if you don't have compression, let's try something,
Put enough oil in the cylinder to cover the piston, put it in gear and roll it.

How certain are you that you got TDC Compression when you adjusted the valves?
Are you sure the decompression lever isn't holding a valve open?

It's okay to do things that won't be left that way when you ride it.

You can leave the tank off and unhook the decompression solenoid, if you are in any way uncertain about the valves being closed when they need to be you can open the adjustment.

You have to know if it's making compression and if not, why not.

How much time have the rings been going up and down the cylinder without oil?
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #28 - 09/11/17 at 13:22:55
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/11/17 at 06:53:29:
How much of the fogging oil did you use?

1. Did you ever get it running?

2. How are you finding the metal shavings?

3. Do you know anyone who has a scope and can peek into the cylinder?

4. How certain are you that you got TDC Compression when you adjusted the valves?

5. Are you sure the decompression lever isn't holding a valve open?

6. How much time have the rings been going up and down the cylinder without oil?


1. No, I haven't gotten it to run yet. I did however get it to pop/backfire once, but that was when I accidentally left the flywheel plug/screw off the cover (Yeah I know, rookie mistake, I was really tired). But with it on, it won't make any pops. When it made that pop/backfire out of the flywheel cover, it also threw up oil out of the hole. http://i.imgur.com/mppNPJ1.jpg

2. I found the metal shavings in the fuel/intake hole where the carb connects, I should've taken a picture but I have already wiped the shavings out of the fuel/intake hole.

3. I don't, I suppose I could order one.

4. I'm certain that the bike was set to TDC when I adjusted the valves.

5. I'm not

6. I did an oil change as soon as I bought the bike, but when I drained it, it was pretty low on oil.


justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/11/17 at 06:53:29:
But if you don't have compression, let's try something,
Put enough oil in the cylinder to cover the piston, put it in gear and roll it.

I did that before I tried starting it last night to make sure the piston was all lubed up, I sprayed a good amount of fogging oil in it.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Turns over doesn't start, carb cleaned has spa
Reply #29 - 09/11/17 at 21:13:22
 
You need to eliminate every possible way that a valve could be held open.

The decompression lever needs to be checked
Disconnect the decompression solenoid too

And unless you are 100% certain your valves are right, you might try loosening them off if the decompression doesn't solve it.

Ohhh, you can put it at TDC and put air in the cylinder.
Pull the oil fill plug.
If air comes out you have a
Hole in your piston.
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