thumperclone wrote on 04/09/17 at 23:13:07:


From what I've read, some small group around 300 CE started it. I didn't know this before, but January 6th was used also.

It really doesn't matter that much. It's nit like there were birth certificates! There wasn't even a worldwide agreed upon calendar.

What you can do however is to say this man Jesus was a con-man. Like a ancient day Jim Jones, he conned large numbers of people into believing him, faked his death etc.. Later, dozens of those people wrote letters about him which later became the new testament. By luck, even older manuscripts were found (some of what we call the old testament today) that predicted events close enough to what the new testament writers fabricated that it even furthers cemented his legacy.

If you want to make that argument, that makes sense. That's the argument you should be making. But the argument Jesus of Nazareth was never a human being would mean you must deny the existence of hundreds of historical figures with equal or even less indirect evidence they lived.

For BOT,

http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian...

Sorry about that "T" I forgot that only left wing atheist have unbiased information.

It would never be that atheist writers or articles would like maybe "not report on such historical writings"

MShipley wrote on 04/10/17 at 07:54:14:


All these are references to the man Christians worship,... not the man himself...
..and all were written well after Jesus supposed death...
None of them could possibly have known the man himself, only the legend.
Many gods can be evidenced through legend...
All of them, in fact....

Look who Josephus worked for...  Rome,.. so much so that he was adopted by the Flavius family...
They selectively compiled and edited the Jesus story to suit the needs of Rome.
The Jesus story, chronologically mirrors the activities of Titus Flavius,... and there are Roman monuments that refer to Titus as the" Son of God"...

Watch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS0WSEuousE

Serowbot wrote on 04/10/17 at 10:34:40:


You sound like Jog talking about The Pentagon now.....conspiracies to keep the masses at bay.

So no writings from more than a couple hundred years can be trusted?...

But you trust what you read about Josephus working for Rome? And you extrapolate that into assuming he wrote lies? You say these were lies written to suit Rome's purposes and you base that on.....what? Things you read that others wrote who have just as much of an agenda as you do.

Below is some interesting information. But let's face it, none of us are historians much less ancient manuscripts historians. There's only so much we can determine because everyone has an agenda. I have as much reason to doubt what Sew finds to link as he has to doubt what I pasted below. All we can do is read through it and make our best judgement unless we happen to be experts in that field. (now, if you want to talk about indoor air quality in North American food processing facilities, I'm your guy)

The Number of New Testament Manuscripts Compared with Other Ancient Books

In terms of quantity, the New Testament is represented far more than any other piece of ancient literature. Consider the known manuscripts of four well known Greek and Roman works: Homer was the earliest and most popular author of the ancient Greek world. His book, The Illiad, dates to 750 BC. To date, 647 manuscripts of this book have been found. Only 190 contain a complete copy. When compared to other classical Greek writing, Homer’s work is an exception. Copies of his work are much more plentiful than other ancient books. For example, Caesar’s Gallic War, dates to 50 BC. Only 9-10 manuscripts exist with the earliest copy dating to 900 AD. Thucydides’ Peloponnesian War dates to 450 BC. Eight manuscripts have been found with the earliest copy dating to 900 AD. (There are some fragments of this book that date to the time of Jesus.) Finally, Tacitus’ Histories was written in 100 AD. Only two manuscripts are available. One dates to 800 AD, the other to 1000 AD.  

In light of this, the number of ancient writings containing the New Testament is staggering. To date, over 5800 Greek New Testament fragments have been found (Taylor, 2012). Over 10,000 Latin New Testament manuscripts dating from the 2nd to 16th century have been located. The earliest are in fragments that cover a substantial amount of the New Testament. Some manuscripts have also been found in a number of other languages, including Coptic, Syriac, Gothic, and Arabic. Taking all languages together, over 25,000 handwritten copies of the New Testament have been recovered. But there is more. Almost the entire New Testament could be reproduced by quotes from the ancient church fathers. “So extensive are these citations that if all other sources for our knowledge of the text of the New Testament were destroyed, they would be sufficient alone for the reconstruction of practically the entire New Testament” (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005).

Jesus Real ?  Religion of, ‘peace’ ?

Well, their, was a  human  on this earth called  Jesus.  It is  documented in many places, as to his travels with his uncle,  ( today a, ’teenager’), then, a, ‘young adult’. (Mostly for  Lead  Mining, in what is now the UK)

Was his Mother a,  ‘Virgin”  ?
(Remember when a, Nike missile base, was in a local small town,  Bunch of  18-20 year old soldiers in town. A 17 year old girl, got, Pregnant, from,  ’Swimming in a  public pool’.)

Were other things he did, ’Spun’,  (Like today), or did they change with interpretation over the years?
Really does not matter,   (Unless you are, ’selling’, another religion), because the believers, ‘believe’.

Were not ALL,  Other religions, dealt with the same way ?

(Well except one that says: ‘I  KILL  YOU . . . . . . “)

Things DO, change, as we learn more.  
Earth Flat, Sun revolves around the Earth, Penicillin.  etc. etc. etc.

Some still follow, ‘old’ ways.
Like  a,  ‘wise’ person, who used to determine a certain animal, ‘clean’, because he blessed/killed it.
Many people still only eat, ‘Kosher’, meat.
Even knowing that, any, (approved meat) is  safe.   It is the belief they follow.

And, Tomorrow,  (can’t do it yet, only  visualize it), someone will hold a, real Tesseract, in their hand.

So,  just perhaps, when most people said: “The Earth is Flat”.
And a Few said:  “Biased on this and that, I think it is Round”.
Then most said:  “The Sun goes around the Earth”
And a Few said: “Biased on this and that, I think the Earth revolves around the Sun”.

Today, some say: “Religion of  Peace”.
And others say: “Biased on this and that, I think  you are wrong”.
Please name, ONE, other, ‘belief’,
that,  TODAY, says:
  “I  KILL  YOU  . . . . . "