First things first; the title of this thread:"Nobody knew healthcare was so complex"...

Actually, everyone did, but Obama and Democratic Congress pushed it through quickly. Almost everyone predicted the disaster we are faced with now.

Complains about Trump working through the process to come up with a plan are like complaining about a contractor you brought in to fix the mess the previous contractor made.

Now, you could say that's water under the bridge. Not necessary to place blame because it doesn't change the situation we're in now.

While that's true in some cases, not here. Blame needs to be clearly placed at the feet of the former administration and any current members of Congress who supported it. The reason why is they've revealed they don't really care about actually solving the issue, they wanted the victory and a club to beat Republicans with.

Let's agree on that first.

Second, read again what buster wrote. He's a small business owner who got screwed. Doesn't sound like it went well for Buster.

Luckily for me, my company is on a tear the past few years so they absorbed about 1.2 million out of 1.5 million cost increase. It didn't effect me, not yet anyway.  Not everyone is so lucky and I realize that.

So, we clearly can't keep Obamacare going. Companies are pulling out, cost going up, it's a disaster.

*Consider The Donald...  he has never faced this.... no medical crisis could ever take him down, from birth on...
...(it's like being born with bionic underwear)...
Risk is easy... when risk is limited to going back to where you started....
In America,... risk is going beyond back, to losing everything....*

And when you say stuff like that, what value does that have? By the time Obama began coming up with Obamacare, he to knew he'd never, ever face a financial or medial crisis so whatever point you are trying to make is ridiculous. Move on.


Question is, what next? Your description of European healthcare, the commitment of doctors, bright future for innovations, reduced cost. Those are pie in the sky dreams, but they are simply not true. It's not. It defies logic. How can taking the profit motive out of a system bring innovation? How can it attract the best minds? Show me how the VA system reduces cost, attracts the best doctors and creates innovations. You can't.

And I won't even bring up the most logical and truthful outcome of government healthcare which is rationed care based upon perceived value of the patient.   And if you deny that, then there really isn't any point of discussing anything with you. I've been to VA hospitals to visit church members.  I don't want to go to a VA hospital.

Okay, long rant. The point is, government run healthcare in the US would be a financial disaster and from a patient care point of view, a bigger disaster.

But again, what next? Where do we go from here?

Ya think?????

Don’t go to a Doctor Often.
BUT,  Have been,   FORCED,  to get   a H.C.  Plan.
    (As Per   Wanna  Be  KING  bam a)
Twisted a ankle,   just was not, getting better like it should,
Went to a  Doctor,
(Had this  Expensive  H,C, Now, because I   HAD  TO,  per,  Wanna  Be   KING,  bam a)
So why not use it

So  X-Rays,  Bla  Bla,  Bla,  (nothing broke  just a big twist),  And,
“As long as you have not been here is a while,  we are going to take blood”

So is was discovered,  ’Thyroid’,  needed some pills.
DOCTOR, wrote a  90 pills, (One a day),
INSURANCE   COMPANY, (Thanks   bam a)
said:   “Only 30 Pills”, at a  Time,  
  (Which,   ‘co-pay’, was,  ONLY,   10%   LESS,  (if purchased outright), than the CO-PAY)
Again  Thanks,  bam a.
Now, more blood tests, had to tweak the meds a little,
and DOCTOR, wrote ANOTHER 90 Pill prescription.
and the   Insurance  Company,  STILL,  did  ONLY  30  DAYS,
(So the,  ’co-pay’, would cover the outright Cost of those)

Canada is Cheaper, Mexico is is  Whole lot Cheaper
But  Hey,    bam a,   thank you,  
you have done such a  wonderful job  of  getting your,  ‘KICK-BACKS’  !!!!!!!!!!!!! .

So when  the dose is settled,
It will be   CHEAPER, going out of Country to buy,
than,  ‘co-pay’.  Again, thank you so much bam a;
(And,  Gov,  ‘ goofy’)

HC  in the USA, is the BEST.
   (Gee Why does everyone else come here)
BUT, when it is,  FORCED,
it becomes  a  nothing more than a,  
‘KICK-BACK’, to the people that say you,  HAVE  TO !

(Yea, that's right,  'Experienced  Reality",  is  NOT  really  'real',
according to  T&T !!!)

If he repeals and doesn't replace, things will go back to the way they were before and we can start reform again and make incremental changes that actually accomplish something.

How  does,  ‘Bankruptcy work”.

Her ya go, do this.
Buy a  house a  $400.000.00, on a  96-4% Loan,
  (Owe  96%, have 4%  Equity)
Now, buy a  car at $50.000.00,  on payments.
 And buy,  Toys,  Toys   Toys,
(MC’s,  Boats, Jet Skies, Other Cars,  on and on  and on  and on)

Run up Debt, any place you can.
   (All While having a job, and   Lying, to the Banker)
Now,   DECLARE,   Bankruptcy.

Your house, and one car,  (of course the $50,000.00 one  which you paid  3,000.00 down on)
Is  NOW,  Instantly,  DEBT   FREE.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rest of your ’toys’, you must   ’surrender’.
BUT,  you Hide them, or you   LIE, and told the Trustee,  you sold them,
and spent that money,  gambling at a,  
’Sovereign  Nation  Casino’,   (INDIAN)

SO,  When the dust settles,  You have ALL  your   TOYS,
AND  you house and car,     FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What a heck of a deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some,  (Very  FEW), get caught,   (Like  the car dealer,  Denny Hecker, who is now in Jail)
But that is,   VERY   FEW.

So, that is the way, to Cheat,   Steel , Lie,  and  Get   FREE   !!!!!!!!!!!!
That, boat, you bought,  (etc  etc. etc).  
Those people that  LOST, money, as to your   Lying, Cheating, Dishonesty)
Will NOW,  charge   MORE,   for that thing.

   Who  Pays ???????????

Gee,  kinna  like   Health Care.
Someone,  (who  PAYS   NOTHING,  Because   EVERYONE  ELSE  Pays)
has a  headache  goes to a  Emergency ward.   (For  FREEEEEEEEE)
While someone, who  has a  deep cut in their hand, and needs stitches, can Pay, 1000’s of dollars.
JUST,  so  the,  ‘Headache  Person’  can get a  aspirin for   FREEEEEEEEE  !!!!!

Ya  want,  ‘FREE’,  HC  for   Everybody?

Do this,  PAY  40+%  of your wages in Taxes,  
AND,  STOP,   Defending   EVERY,   ‘Banana Republic”,  with our  Military.
OR,   Stop  the  FREELOADERS,  from   SUCKING,   UN- Deserved,  WELFARE.

  Pick One  !!!!!!

LOL - accomplish????  Oh, like the skyrocketing bankruptcies due to health care debt, people literally dying for care, rate hikes constantly in the double digits, zero actual coverage on cheap plans, pre-existing condition denials, zero out-of-network coverage, drug costs completely unchecked, etc., etc... yeah, that's a lot better than what we have now...


Obamacare premiums are skyrocketing now. Where have you been? Companies are pulling out because people are only signing up when they get sick. This is the equivalent to you buying car insurance after you have an accident and the insurance company is mandated by law to cover you. Companies are not hiring people to stay away from the mandates.
We've spent billions of dollars to cover 11 million people and we did it by harming the coverage of others. You read what buster wrote earlier in this thread. Do you not give a crap about Buster? Ann Coulter, an independent business woman, documented her insurance plan changed 3 times and the coverage got worse every time. She's filthy rich and can afford it. Many independent people, such as Buster, don't have that luxury.

You call this progress? We went backwards.

Face the reality. Obamacare failed because it was a bad idea. You want to push for a single payer healthcare systems; then do it. But don't try to put lipstick on this pig and tell everyone it's pretty.

Just so I'm clear, you think she's making everything up and her coverage is better and she never really lost her doctor? You think Buster made up his story?

Sure they could, but they still have insurance, even if it's only used in extreme circumstances. And you're right, Ann could probably pay a retainer and have a doctor on call 24/7 if she wanted.

Read her story about her Obamacare experience.