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Carb issue (Read 535 times)
Hoodlum333
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Carb issue
02/11/17 at 11:34:59
 
You all have been a tremendous help to this noob and I hope you can pull through the for me again. My bike has been sitting for about 2 months. It ran just fine before, but then I couldn't get it started. I did everything I was supposed to do and narrowed it down to a fuel issue. When I took the carb Bowl off, the float was stuck and I needed to knock it loose. It is free now but the fuel inside the bowl was Green? Anyway I fired it up and it would not start without full choke. I had to run wot with full choke to even keep her running. I took her for a test drive around the block, and she tried to die on me the whole way, jerking back and forth as I tried to keep it running. And she is popping something fierce. The floats in the bowl were corroded with green and yellow residue, and I'm pretty sure I need to rebuild the carb.
    As a rather novice mechanic, with plenty of hours logged on YouTube, I feel I can do this no problem. As this is my cheap Project Bike, I don't want to spend a whole lot of money. Is there an inexpensive carb rebuild kit with jets that you guys recommend I purchase? Also, with my bike being an 87, I could not find any information on whether the petcock is vacuum or not. It flows freely and both the on and reserve positions and I don't know if this is an issue as well. Thanks for the assist.
    -Rick
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #1 - 02/11/17 at 12:35:02
 
You can tell if it's a vac petcock if it's got 2 hoses connected to it.
but if it's flowing when on and res, it's either not or stuck on.
another way it's got an off position.

take the bowl off, remove the main jet and the idle jet and clean them.

a oz of sea foam in the tank can't hurt either.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #2 - 02/11/17 at 13:18:09
 
If the bowl was green and you had to knock the float loose, it was stuck in the
The bowl is low on fuel, allow fuel to flow in
Position.
Your float opens and closes a needle valve. You need to make sure it's clean and moves easily. A bit of crud will keep it from seating. Dried green crap inside the tube that needle runs in, crap on the needle, anything that causes resistance can cause the fuel to continue to flow.
A tip cleaner for a welders torch has some tiny, rough edged wires that can be helpful in cleaning up jets. Don't go nuts. Get a spray can of Berrymans B12, Wear Eyeball Protection.. I hold my breath, squirt, get to fresh air, A green hue to the aluminum is one thing. A layer of green crap that can soften in gas and move around is quite another.
Some of the plastic stuff doesn't appreciate Berrymans, protect things, squirt through the small openings, IDK if the TEV? , I hope that is the right name, has to come out.
Unless you have made changes to the airflow through the engine, intake and exhaust mods, the jets you have were the jets that it's been running on.
If it's been dumping gas it's possible some has gotten into the air filter and oil.
Yes, you can win this. No, you shouldn't have to buy much. But do hold the needle valve up to a light and check it for an indentation around the black part and see if it's still a little bit soft.

And, since I Know there is so much I Don't know about the carb, anything I've said could be corrected by any number of people.
Just don't get in a hurry,
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #3 - 02/13/17 at 21:15:00
 
Knocking the float valve to get it loose may have changed your float height ,you should check it before replacing the float bowl.there is also a filter screen up in the carb body above the float valve seat in the path the fuel travels from the petcock to the float bowl,if it is plugged it will slow flow to the carb starving the jets and might be why the motor doesn't want to run without the choke adding extra fuel.
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« Last Edit: 02/17/17 at 14:38:52 by batman »  

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piedmontbuckeye
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #4 - 02/17/17 at 13:31:45
 
Only think I disagree with Justin's post above, is using welder cleaners to help you clean the jets.  It is best if nothing that can scratch the holes in  the jets be used, even a properly sized drill bit.

Best to soak in carb cleaner, and then used compressed air to gently blow through them.  May need to be repeated several times. Make sure that anything you stick into them will not be able to mar or scratch the hole.

I understand, that when they make these jets, they don't just number them by the hole size, but by the actual flow rate. Marring up the interior hole can affect fuel flow.
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #5 - 02/17/17 at 13:51:47
 
Thanks for the info guys. Got the carb out and a gallon of barryman dip. Got the carb half taken apart and am trying to find a good how to with pics. darn think doesn't even have a model number to reference, just mikuni and made in jap
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Hoodlum333
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #6 - 02/17/17 at 14:04:14
 
One question though....I bought the bike already bobbed and customized. Lots of mods, mostly from ryca. It had no hoses attached to either of the carb bowl vents....they are just open and exposed. Only line in is the fuel line. Is this a concern?
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #7 - 02/17/17 at 14:54:50
 
If you need to ,you can use a small piece of copper wire to run through the jets ,as copper is softer than the brass jet an won't damage it.Without the overflow hoses that normally run up into the center of the frame's square backbone,outside air (with humidity) may have found a short and easy path into your carb bowl and caused formation of all the Green crud your cleaning out now.It's best to drain a carb for long term storage. carb model BS-40
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« Last Edit: 02/17/17 at 19:08:51 by batman »  

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LANCER
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #8 - 02/18/17 at 03:59:14
 
While cleaning the jets do not forget all the passageways in the carb body.  Most are saaociated with the pilot system, there are several there.  Using pressurized carb cleaner along with the tiny copper wire will help you get it clean .  Wear safety glasses or a face shield when spraying the carb cleaner because it came out at surprising angles and can hit you in the face if you are not familiar what with the exit points.
Forgot to mention , use the tiny red tube that comes with the can of carb cleaner when spraying into the carbs passageways.
If when you spray into a hole, and there is no exit for the spray, then you have a clog that needs to be removed.
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #9 - 02/18/17 at 06:57:18
 
Batman's and Lancer's directions are GREAT!!!
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #10 - 02/18/17 at 14:43:53
 
So I got her all back together and she started right up...Choke out but not Wot this time. However, it is popping (not backfire) and Everytime it pops I see flashes coming from in the filter.???

The K&L 18-5064 carb kit that I ordered had a gasket that was slightly off (didn't use) and a float needle and housing that was very similar (albiet a tad shorter) that I did install.

Is this an indication of running rich?
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batman
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #11 - 02/18/17 at 20:49:43
 
The kit you ordered appears to be the right one. Was the valve that hangs from the float really shorter?(that seems odd),or is it that the valve seat seems to set deeper into the carb body?  If you see fire coming back through the carb ,that is backfiring,flames or a pop from the muffler is actually afterfiring,which  are you seeing? Did you check the float height after installing the new valve and seat? did you reinstall the o-ring and filter under the seat? we need these quistions answered!      It does sound like the float valve is not closing or is set to high and is flooding the bowl sending way to much fuel into the carb which tends to ignite at idle speed .    I'd turn the petcock on reserve /or pri and wait a while before starting the bike to see if you get fuel out the overflows ,if not the float bowl level still my be set to high. float height (easy to set if you turn the carb upside down) from the flange to the bottom of the float 1.04-1.16 inches or 26.4-29.4mm
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« Last Edit: 02/19/17 at 05:59:24 by batman »  

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Re: Carb issue
Reply #12 - 02/19/17 at 06:03:11
 
Batman, many thanks for the assist. I will provide what I know. UPDATE: I fired her up yesterday and opened her up on the road. When throttle is on, she does just fine, plenty of power. The SECOND you let off the throttle, even to shift, it sounds like a fireworks grand finale. I mean the popping was beyond rediculous. The second you let off the throttle, she dies.

In answer to your question, the float pin was identical, but the float valve was fractionally smaller. I can take a pic when I get her back apart.

No, I did not see pop from the pipes, but when I took the filter off and watched while throttling, I noticed fuel igniting as the slide went up and down. Each ignition, seeming to occur at random intervals, caused the engine to lose power and try to die.

When I dismantled the carb, I could not get the whole thing apart. I got a gallon of berrymans for a dip, but since I couldn't get the whole carb apart, I did not attempt to dip it as I was afraid there could be hidden rubber washers or plastic components in there. It has been dismantled before. The damed screws were so tight that I started to strip the ones retaining the needle in the slide, so I couldn't remove that.

Additionally, I did my best to reinstall the same way I took it apart. I counted 3 complete turns when removing my main jet, but when I went to reinstall, I turned 4 times til it stopped. I don't know if this is now starving my bike but I did this because the threads were so loose that it felt as if the bike rattling during normal operation would have caused the screw to "move".

In addition, I drained the tank, removed the petcock, cleaned the filter, ran new fuel lines and installed an on-line filter. Should the flow from the petcock be alot when "on", because it looks rather "medium" if that makes sense.

I know have a much better "guide" that I have found on this site. I will remove the carb and start again. I know that is alot of info. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Carb issue
Reply #13 - 02/19/17 at 06:58:23
 
First off ,an inline filter can cause flow problem due to becoming air bound ,the screen on the petcock is good enough ,I'd get rid of the filter,it's the cause of your slower flow.   When you installed the main jet there should have been a brass washer under the jet ,it sometime tends to wander off,(like it has a life of it's own  Winkit's a spacer that needs to be there or the jet screws in to far,.It also holds the needle jet (the brass cylinder with all the holes) up in place(important).You should also make sure the same jet is all the way up in the body there's a notch in the side of it , but it's that brass washer that holds it up in place ! That was probably the "loose " feeling you had.(the whole assembly will move up and down the thickness of the washer if it's not there) The jet sliding down away from the jet needle could well be the cause of you running rich.I'd also still check float height while your at it. good luck!
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« Last Edit: 02/19/17 at 09:24:42 by batman »  

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Re: Carb issue
Reply #14 - 02/19/17 at 07:12:15
 
Disagree about the inline fuel filter with above post.  I had several on my old 1,000cc and only ran one line to feed the carb at a time.  I only got 40 MPG so it was needing more fuel than my Savage.  Never, after having the filter on for three years and close to 16,000 miles did I ever have any fuel flow problem, and also, not even any dirt, as I had thoroughly cleaned my tank and petcock out beforehand.

Perhaps it was the brand I used, but soon one will go on my Savage.  In my mind it is better than having any dirt in the carb.

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