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Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV? (Read 447 times)
verslagen1
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #15 - 08/09/16 at 20:31:45
 
Armen wrote on 08/09/16 at 15:35:12:
'Driving a piston against vacuum is no better than pressure.'

Huh?

On what planet?

Quick call all the leading NASCAR teams and tell them to remove the vacuum pumps they run off the bottom end of their motors.
And you know that real slouch motor, the 1199 Panigale? Yup, fitted with a vacuum pump on the bottom end. Better call Ducati as well.

what's the diff, push a piston up against 15psi with 0 underneath, or pull a piston down against 15psi with 0 above?

and I'm talking about 1 piston, not 2, 4, 6 or 8.
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #16 - 08/09/16 at 21:50:59
 
Armen wrote on 08/09/16 at 15:20:22:
Batman,
Really?
I used to use a cheapo automotive PCV valve, but then figured out they don't work as well when they aren't vertical. Someone suggested using the one way valve from an auto power brake vacuum tank.
Cost is a few bucks. Use one without the whole oil capture gag and you'll still make the bottom end happier.
Or not.
The ten bucks and ten minutes might ruin your life  Grin

Verslagen,
Take a look at the bottom end of a modern ultra high perf inline 4. LOTS of engineering involved in getting the air under the piston to be able to move back and forth between the pairs of cylinders. They don't get 200 HP from 1 liter by just thinking happy thoughts  Smiley

YES LOTS ,of engineering ,but we don't have another piston to move the air under! Versy already made the point that it can be done with a four cylinder ,that's because two of pistons are moving up while the other two move down ,BUT we only have one!
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #17 - 08/10/16 at 04:25:05
 
Huh? Less crankcase vacuum means less leaks. More pressure= more leaks.
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #18 - 08/10/16 at 04:26:34
 
Batman,
Reread the comments.
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #19 - 08/10/16 at 12:33:12
 
Armen ,someone on this site once told me the proof is in the puddin',so why don't you do this on your bike and come back and tell us how much hp you gained and the cost and the process you used .
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #20 - 08/12/16 at 02:29:36
 
Batman,
I will when the bike is done.
In the meantime, if someone wants some test guidelines, here goes:
Take the bike out (stock) on a long section of flat road.
Run it up as high as it will rev to in each gear.
Take a note of the MPH (or KPH).
Come back and remove the crank breather hose from the airbox. Plug the hole in the box, and put a K+N crank vent filter on the end of the hose.
Repeat the run.
Cut the hose and insert a one-way valve such as a automobile power brake vacuum valve in the hose and reinsert the hose into the airbox.
Repeat the run.
Remove the hose from the airbox, and reinstall the K+N crank vent filter.
Run again.
The folks from the Triumph Rat list saw consistent improvements by not routing the hot, oily crankcase vent air into the airbox. The last thing the engine wants (in other than freezing weather) is hot air. And the oil mist generated at full chat lowers the octane of the gas when it all meets up in the combustion chamber.
As Verslagen pointed out, the breather hose is pretty small for a big single. By only allowing air out (one way valve) of the bottom end, the only air pressure building up in there wold be from heat and ring blowby.
By the way, I did test all this stuff.
Early 90's when I built an SR500 (punched out to 560) that won the AHRMA Sound of Singles Senior Class national championship.
If you go to the vintage races, take a look at what the front runners are doing with the crankcase breathers.
Cheap, easy, proven, and it works.
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #21 - 08/12/16 at 06:26:55
 
Armen,

Obviously you know more about tuning engines than most of us.

If you could point us to a specific one way valve that would get some of us started in the right direction.

Kenny G
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #22 - 08/12/16 at 07:14:13
 
Hey Kenny,
Will do. I'll take some pics this weekend.
I was actually thinking of running two breathers. Keep the stock hose and attach a brake booster valve to that. And since I'm not using a mechanical speedo drive, I was going to use the hole in the crankcase to run either a BMW Airhead or Ducati reed valve.
take care,
-Armen
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #23 - 08/12/16 at 08:08:02
 
Armen,

I hope you do a build thread to document your project.  You've posted enough bits here and there to pique my interest.

Tim
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #24 - 08/12/16 at 09:00:40
 
Thanks Tim,
I've been taking some pics and some notes.
Just ordered the RYCA rear set brackets. Yes, I can make them, but I just don't have time  Roll Eyes
Next step is bracing up and chopping up the swingarm to allow the wheel to move forward. 18" wheel and larger front pulley makes things too cozy.
Then the forks get twiddled. And, and, and....
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #25 - 08/12/16 at 09:15:05
 
Hurry up.  I'll probably start my project this winter (if I can wait that long) and I'm sure all want to steel some of your ideas!  Wink

Tim

Oh, and for the rearset bracket, I took the battery tray mounts and flipped them upsidedown on my spare frame.  Needed just a tad bit of grinding and we have the beginnings of the bracket.  (My build will be relatively simple and inexpensive compared to some of the nicer builds.)
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #26 - 08/12/16 at 09:20:32
 
Armen wrote on 08/12/16 at 09:00:40:
Next step is bracing up and chopping up the swingarm to allow the wheel to move forward.


When I did my swingarm.....I cut it up, made the new pieces, welded them in.....and the the rear wheel axle and spacers wouldn't fit between them anymore.  Seems the welding caused the swing "arms" to pull in as the welds cooled.  I had to put a bottle jack in to spread them out.....and I am not sure they spread equally on both sides as I am having trouble getting my belt centered in the pulley (I will get it fixed when I pull some things apart this winter).

Make a spacer to put between the arms to maintain the spacing before you weld.....and/or make a jig or template so you can make sure things stay in alignment.
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #27 - 08/12/16 at 09:29:12
 
Ruttly, you are so assertive. Cool

I think I'll follow along on a different thread where English is spoken. Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #28 - 08/12/16 at 09:35:38
 
Actually now that I have re-read some of this it sounds interesting. I just wish I knew enough to understand the explanation you are giving Armen. I'm willing to try to learn. Huh
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Re: Crankcase vent/vacuum/PCV?
Reply #29 - 08/12/16 at 10:00:59
 
Dave,
Thanks for the thoughts.
I was planning on adding the bracing, then cutting away. And I was going to jig up both ends so that they stay in line. Always a chance that things will twist.
Springman-sorry if I wasn't clear. Tell me what doesn't make sense and I'll try to clarify.
Have to admit, I was looking at the rear pulley this morning and thinking about how many holes I could put and where  Shocked
-Armen
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