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Cam chain tensioner revisited (Read 2423 times)
Armen
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Cam chain tensioner revisited
05/17/16 at 12:15:12
 
I've been reading the stuff on the cam chain tensioner, and seen the mod offered to extend the tensioner arm for more travel.
Makes me think about the root of the problem. Honestly, I don't see that many cam chains on other bikes stretch out that much. And extending the arm just means that the chain is really stretched out.
Which isn't great for the sprockets.
Looking at the stock tensioner, it has a ratchet on it so that the arm cannot retract once it extends. So, when the cylinder is cold, the arm extends. The the engine heats up and the cylinder grows. But the chain doesn't. So maybe the grief here is that the tensioner is stretching the chain?
When we raced an SR500 in AHRMA I modified the original automatic tensioner to semi-automatic. I'd allow a little slack when the engine was cold, then when it heated up and the cylinder grew, the chain basically ran with no slack, but no tension.
Thinking about doing the same thing on the Savage. Downside is that it would mean pulling the clutch cover to adjust periodically.
Waddayatink?
-Armen
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Dave
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #1 - 05/17/16 at 12:20:57
 
I have been considering this as well.  My bike is a Cafe Conversion, and the pegs are not in the way to remove the clutch cover.  I would only need to remove the exhaust system (3 bolts), and then remove the cover.  It could be as simple as taking the spring out of the tensioner and moving it manually.

The last bike I worked on, I put a very weak spring in the tensioner, and MMRanch did the same a while back.
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norm92de
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #2 - 05/17/16 at 12:38:55
 
I have been thinking about this also and am very interested in batman's solution, i.e. take out the pawl. It sounds like lunacy but he swears that he has had no problems in a few thousand miles. I am very nervous about it but the proof is in the pudding. (haven't done it yet) Smiley

I have also thought about filing every other tooth off the ratchet which would possibly halve the wear cycle?

Clearly the cam chain spends a lot of its time over tensioned.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #3 - 05/17/16 at 12:43:50
 
norm92de wrote on 05/17/16 at 12:38:55:
I have also thought about filing every other tooth off the ratchet which would possibly halve the wear cycle?


That is the one thing I know won't work.  The pawl engages several teeth on the plunger at once.  If you remove every other tooth you won't change the travel - you will only succeed in having half as many teeth engaged to resist the forces.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #4 - 05/17/16 at 12:56:53
 
This would solve your adjustment issue...




http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1448856365
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norm92de
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #5 - 05/17/16 at 13:04:03
 
Dave,
I didn't know that. I thought only one tooth at a time engaged.

Another thought, with your a rigid tensioner? How many miles would it take for the chain to wear down enough to be "too loose"?  Any guesses?

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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #6 - 05/17/16 at 13:16:14
 
I have no idea how fast the adjustment occurs with a stock tensioner vs. how fast the wear "needs" to be adjusted.

When I last had my bike apart it was at 1,200 miles, and the tensioner measured 14mm.  I now have 7,000 miles on it and plan on taking it apart in a month or so....and I can measure it again and then convert it to manual.

I also don't know what "too loose" will be....maybe it doesn't need to be adjusted every tooth like the stock system does automatically.  I think you just ride....and maybe once a year make an adjustment until you get a feel for what is required.  After the first year you would know how much wear occurred by measuring the extension and recording the mileage before you remove the spring, then take the spring out and ride......next winter you remove the side cover, look at the tensioner and give it a small shove and see where the piston ends up (measure), then take the tensioner off, install the stock spring and rotate the engine over several times...then measure again (this will give you an idea how accurate your "shove" was.  Then take the spring back out and shove the plunger to the dimension that you measured when you put the spring back in.

Another option is to do what Verslagen is suggesting....or maybe a small cable/wire looked into the oil fill port.
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verslagen1
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #7 - 05/17/16 at 13:26:28
 
Armen wrote on 05/17/16 at 12:15:12:
And extending the arm just means that the chain is really stretched out.
Which isn't great for the sprockets.


This would be an issue with roller chain, but is not an issue with our silent chain.
Our sprocket is more of a gear and the chain just has slots that engage with the gear.
A loose chain will just float over the teeth engaging with the same area it always engages with.

Key issue to be aware of is the pin wear.  Once that gets thin enough to double shear... look out.
Chain stretch of .060" across of I don't know how many pins ain't a whole lot of wear.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #8 - 05/17/16 at 13:28:50
 
I like versys idea.

As long as I don't drop the thing down in the engine Tongue
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Armen
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #9 - 05/17/16 at 13:29:56
 
Another option is to put a rod in the center of the spring/plunger and lose the ratchet. A bit of trial and error and you get the right amount of slack.
We do a similar thing on the rebound block on Smith and Wesson revolvers to limit trigger over-travel. When the chain becomes a bit loose, just shim up the rod or swap to a longer rod.
I bought a new cam chain, so this would be the time to do it  Wink
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #10 - 05/17/16 at 13:33:20
 
I think I am going to get pretty rapid chain wear since my riding is always 50/80 miles at a time, Never more. :'(
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verslagen1
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #11 - 05/17/16 at 13:34:46
 
Dave wrote on 05/17/16 at 13:16:14:
Another option is to do what Verslagen is suggesting....or maybe a small cable/wire looked into the oil fill port.


The oil diverter in front of the oil fill port is perfect for keeping something out of the chain.
However, a cable I wouldn't want to use as it might flex enough to get eaten by the chain.
Maybe a plate retained by the plunger bolt would work but still seems a risk to me.

Insert the wire, give it a tug, and remove it.  Nothing to get caught up in anything.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #12 - 05/17/16 at 13:36:51
 
armen,

I thought off that. It becomes a completely manual adjuster. With the normal spring tension. And so easy to accomplish.
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norm92de
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #13 - 05/17/16 at 13:39:51
 
Since several of us are online.

Does batman's idea seem too cavalier? It is so simple.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #14 - 05/17/16 at 14:03:14
 
I think the tensioner starts out 12 to 14mm extended.  The factory plunger was just made a bit too short to allow for much stretch at all.

With Versy's extension and the added safety of the pinned slot, I'm pretty comfortable.
I don't believe we've ever had a chain stretch beyond that point,... and I don't recall a chain breaking either...

Anybody recall a broken chain?... I may be wrong. Huh
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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