SuzukiSavage.com - Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10% Et

GridMonkey Junior Member Offline Posts: 77 Albany NY	Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10% Et 06/08/15 at 21:40:18 I've been told that Premium Gas is bad for singles w air cooling because it gets too hot, I've been told that Ethanol is bad for carbs. So a gas station near me is selling regular and mid grade with 10% ethanol and premium without.... what do i do? ...Thanks
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Todd James

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Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10
Reply #1 - 06/09/15 at 00:13:23

There is no direct correlation between the octane rating of gasoline and its heat of combustion.
The heat of combustion is determined by the ratios of octane boosting additives and the actual
chemistry of the gasoline from the refinery.

Granted, ethanol burns at a lower temperature than gasoline, but the mix of octane boosting
additives in the premium gasoline near you may provide similar lower temperatures.
Toluol (Tolulene) is one such typical additive that comes to mind.

I have been running ethanol-free 90 octane fuel in my Savage for the last year and have not
noticed any perceptible engine temperature increase.

But I have noticed easier starting, smoother running, and better throttle response.
I also like the fact that I don't have to worry as much about moisture build-up in the fuel
when it sits over the winter or during the Spring rainy season with temperature fluctuations.

However, if I were using my scoot for my daily commute and filling up 2 or 3 times a week,
I think I'd use the lower priced 87 octane ethanol blend because I know the Savage runs just
fine with that.

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Dave

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Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10
Reply #2 - 06/09/15 at 03:56:27

The belief that Premium fuel, or Avgas, or Racing Gas burns hotter than Regular fuel is false, as is the belief that Avgas or Racing fuel will provide more power, or is better for your engine.

Just about every fuel station in your area buys form the same refinery or distributor. The "base" fuel is shared by all. Before the fuel is delivered to the gas station "additive" packages are added that contain the detergents that are needed, and depending on what brand of fuel you are buying the additives can vary significantly. Some brands carry far more products to help keep your fuel system and engine clean. This can have more effect on how your engine runs than does buying Premium fuel to put in a low compression engine like the Savage.

The Suzuki Savage has a low 8.5:1 compression ration and only needs regular 87 octane fuel to run properly. Running fuels with higher compression ratios will not provide any more power or performance. Running fuels with higher octane ratings will not make the engine run hotter, will not make any more power, and it will not provide any additional mpg. The higher octane ratings provide better protection against detonation.....but there is little chance of that happening in the Savage with the low compression ratio and mild performance design. Higher octane ratings are needed in engines with higher compression ratios - not in the Savage.

E10 fuel is blended with up to 10% ethanol, and it will be the normal fuel that you buy at any normal gas station. Ethanol in this concentration reduces the mpg and performance a bit - but will not harm your engine or carb if you run the engine with it. The damage it causes happens when your bike is not ridden or stored for a period of time. The ethanol in the fuel can absorb moisture and a phase seperation can occur where the ethanol and water settle out of the mix. This ethanol/water layer settles to the bottom and can rust your fuel tank and corrode your carb parts. It can also dissolve rubber parts that are not designed to be used with ethanol.....and it appears the diaphragm in the stock petcock is sensitive to the ethanol damage. If you are not going to be using your bike for a while it is best to get the ethanol fuel out and put a "pure" gasoline with a stabilizer in the tank.

So my recommendation is use the 10% regular fuel when you are riding....and the gas without ethanol when the bike is going into storage (add a fuel stabilizer like Sta-Bil).

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« Last Edit: 06/09/15 at 05:07:12 by Dave »

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koehlerrk

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Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10
Reply #3 - 06/09/15 at 05:40:52

Where I live, there's only one gas station nearby that serves ethanol free... and you have to buy their 91 octane premium to get it. But... that place is just over a mile from where I work, and I drive past it on my way home, so it's not an issue for me. Yup, I buy the 91 octane E0 fuel and my 87 is perfectly happy with it, even if the fuel is overkill for that engine.

Also, for the amount I use, the price difference works out to about $1 per tankfull, so $2.50 a week to not run alcohol in my bike. The carb and seals are thankful, and it's lots cheaper than running my car, so I'm not complaining.

Now, I know I can run E10 in her in a pinch, and if I have to, I will. But I prefer not to.

As for higher octane fuel burning hotter, you got it Dave, it's junk science. Octane is a measurement of how hard the different gasoline molecules are to ignite, and "gasoline" is a cocktail of different molecules. Pure Octane was the most difficult to ignite, and is used as the yardstick to measure the others against. So "87 octane" gasoline ignites at 87% of the temperature required to ignite pure octane.

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pg Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 5273 In Transit	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #4 - 06/09/15 at 06:28:34 I use "real" gasoline even if I have to run across town and pay more. I left E10 in the tank one time for 2 months and it gummed up like wet flour in the carb. Best regards,
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28657 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #5 - 06/09/15 at 07:07:00 Save money,.. buy the cheap gas... It ain't a Bugatti... ... I got 35k miles and the bike still runs fine...
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HAPPYDAN

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Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10
Reply #6 - 06/09/15 at 08:07:51

(Todd James Quote

I have been running ethanol-free 90 octane fuel in my Savage for the last year and have not
noticed any perceptible engine temperature increase.

But I have noticed easier starting, smoother running, and better throttle response.
I also like the fact that I don't have to worry as much about moisture build-up in the fuel
when it sits over the winter or during the Spring rainy season with temperature fluctuations.
[/quote]

I wish I had heard from you sooner - I just recently discovered the same thing, after a suggestion from a Harley rider. I have tried non-Eth 92 and 87, and the S40 runs fine on either. So octane is not the problem, it's the Ethanol, which is better for drinking anyway! Wink

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« Last Edit: 06/10/15 at 20:16:46 by HAPPYDAN »

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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #7 - 06/09/15 at 12:02:36 How are you guys finding out which stations sell non-ethanol blended gas?
Back to top	There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix! 2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18098 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #8 - 06/09/15 at 12:27:48 Kris01 wrote on 06/09/15 at 12:02:36: How are you guys finding out which stations sell non-ethanol blended gas? Not all the information is current....check for updates that folks may have posted, and don't be afraid to call if a telephone number is provided: http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp
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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #9 - 06/09/15 at 14:52:33 Most stations around here just have a pump or more with separate hoses labeled ethanol free. You check 3 or 4 stations, one of them will have ethanol free. I have also found that mine runs better on ethanol free.
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runwyrlph Serious Thumper Offline Semper ubi sub ubi Posts: 846 pa Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #10 - 06/09/15 at 16:46:16 I buy whatever's cheapest - drain the tank and carb for the winter
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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #11 - 06/09/15 at 19:36:03 Thanks Dave!
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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #12 - 06/09/15 at 20:24:30 I'll check the one in Columbus; last time they had a station in Fayetteville listed, and they were not selling eth free
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Dave

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Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10
Reply #13 - 06/10/15 at 02:11:28

Art Webb wrote on 06/09/15 at 20:24:30:

I'll check the one in Columbus; last time they had a station in Fayetteville listed, and they were not selling eth free

If you find something different than what the Pure Gas site says....post an update on the site. The Moderators do use that information to keep the information current.

You can even get shirts and bumber stickers!

http://www.cafepress.com/puregas

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« Last Edit: 06/10/15 at 04:00:10 by Dave »

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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10 Reply #14 - 06/10/15 at 08:42:06 I will, I'm likely the reason the Fayetville station isn't on the site anymore
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Poll
Question: Premium Gas w/o Ethanol or Regular Gas with 10% Ethanol
Premium Gas w/o Ethanol 8 (47%) Regular Gas with 10% Ethanol 9 (52.9%) Total votes: 17 « Created by: GridMonkey on: 06/08/15 at 21:40:18 »