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2014 with idling problems (Read 181 times)
reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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CCP, Chile
Gender: male
2014 with idling problems
04/15/15 at 17:05:30
 
Hi. New here. Loads of great information here ppl.
Thanks a lot!

So, I bought mine used half a year ago (2014 orange/black model),
I'm a new biker so I had little to compare it with. Whatever the case,
the bike fits me pretty well and I really like it!

A few months ago and as I had to do a few minor repairs (broken
turn signal, some missing nuts at the rear fender side application
from a bad passenger seat fit up) the bike was left stored for 2
months and after fixing the above I decided to do an oil+new filter
maintenance. Following the manual's instructions I drained
it and poured *2 litters* of new 10w40 / jaso ma oil. Bike started
normally but I noticed that if, say, after 1 minute of idling (choke
closed by then) I opened the throttle so it will go BrrOOm, it will
stall after I release the throttle. Bike didn't do this before.

After a little inspection I found out the oil level was above full
(window completely covered) so I went and pored some on a
pan till I could be certain it was slightly bellow the F mark. Tried
to start again, no problems but the above symptom remained.

Thinking this would be an easy fix I though, maybe the spark
plug got covered in oil or smth, so I went and replaced it
with a new dpr8ea-9. This *almost* resolve the situation but it
would still stall sometimes if I do the same. When it does happen
it always happens in the same way:

start -> idling with choke open (20s) -> idling with choke halfway through (30s) -> idling with choke closed (1m) -> Sudden throttle opening by me (1s) -> throttle release (me again) -> bike back to idling for a fraction of a second -> bike stalls sometimes, if it doesn't stall it feels like its "right about to stall" for a fraction of a second (have seen the lights almost blink) but it will retake its normal idling.

One thing to note: The more I open the throttle in this sudden
motion, the more likely the bike is to stall.

I'm attaching a pic of the replaced spark plug and from all I know it
shows signs of a too rich condition (no oil though), but I'm not
100% if this is normal with this bike.

I'm thinking that maybe the revs are too low when idling or smth and
that's why it stalls but it doesn't if I don't do the sudden "brooom" so
I'm really not sure. Even if it was the case I don't have a tachometer
to attach to it so I'm not sure how would I adjust this. So far I
haven't made any adjustments to the idle speed. Also, I haven't
take the bike out since I first parked it for repairs so I don't know
whether not using it for 1-2 months can be the culprit some how.

Ideas? Solutions? I really need some help here

Thanks a lot!
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28653
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #1 - 04/15/15 at 17:16:33
 
Set your idle speed (knurled knob near the choke) so that the bike runs about 10mph idling in 1st gear...
It should purr smoothly at idle, not stumble like a Harley...

Too low an idle will cook the head,... not enough oil pressure...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #2 - 04/15/15 at 17:26:15
 
Hey Serowbot, thanks a lot for the info. Just a question though. Any idea why this didn't happen before? Is it normal to have to adjust the idle speed after an oil change or once in a while? What about the sparkplug picture attached, does it look to you like its running too rich? From all I know that sparkplug was there for something like 10 months. If this is the case, is there an easy procedure to adjust this?
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Tucson Az
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #3 - 04/15/15 at 17:42:26
 
Idle speed shouldn't change unless something is blocked or leaking...
Do you have a stock petcock?... they are notoriously flaky...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #4 - 04/15/15 at 17:56:01
 
Yeah. I have the stock one but as the problem started after the oil
and filter change and got better after replacing the sparkplug I'm
trying to find some logic to it :/

A thing I mentioned in my first post that I'm not sure you considered
but I keep thinking it's related is that the chances of the engine stalling
increase if I open the throttle more.

Do you guys see some pattern on this? Something I could have done wrong in the oil/filter replacement process maybe? something else to
check before pumping up the idle revs?
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28653
Tucson Az
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #5 - 04/15/15 at 18:14:19
 
It is possible to install the oil filter backwards...
This will create huge backpressure that will eventually blow a hole in the sidecase... *that might slow the engine and stall... I don't know)...
You may want to check that... Undecided...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Kris01
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #6 - 04/15/15 at 18:25:57
 
That plug does look a little black and sooty. Probably running a little rich. Have you rejetted the carb? Maybe a previous owner did? "Old" thinking on this forum was a little on the rich side. Thanks to Dave and his O2 meter tuning we've started to rejet with a 50 pilot and 150 main (plus you may have to play with the washers to adjust the midrange).

Sounds like a carb problem to me.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #7 - 04/15/15 at 18:41:46
 
Interesting. It's not installed backwards but its not a suzuki branded one (hard to find it here). It's a Mann filter mh 68 (not chinese), supposedly designed for the bike (found it by searching for the Suzuki part number). Do you think it can be the culprit? I wouldn't expect them to be THAT bad. Here's a link to the product description: http://catalog.mann-filter.com/EU/eng/catalog/MANN-FILTER%20Katalog%20Europa/...

Local shops here (chile) wanted to sell me an aftermarket filter made for the DR250 but I found them too flaky and they are also shorter by some 5m than the original one. I ended up buying 2 Chinese and 2 Mann and decided to go with the latter (picture attached) because it matched the original in almost ever dimension but two manufacturing details on the inner side it has an spring instead of a stud and on the backside a plastic piece (better for accidental reversing?) instead of metal (pictures attached). Whatever the case I guess I will try with the Chinese ones tomorrow see if they make any difference.
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reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #8 - 04/15/15 at 18:43:04
 
Mann and original front
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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #9 - 04/15/15 at 18:44:17
 
Mann and original back
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reynaldo
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Sudaka on wheels

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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #10 - 04/15/15 at 18:55:41
 
Kris01 Thanks for the info.

I do suspect there's a too rich condition too but this bike was idling ok before the oil+filter change so I'm inclined to think its not carb related. Although I would love to get some help with the carb adjustments/rejetting latter on Smiley

I'm not sure about the previous owner rejeting it tbh. Will try to find out. Anything to look for other than wear on the carb's nuts and bolts?
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28653
Tucson Az
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #11 - 04/15/15 at 19:00:40
 
I don't use Suzuzki filters either,... I use HiFlo...
Suzuki don't even make filters.. they buy them from the lowest bidder anyway...
Grin...

Another possibility is,... you didn't drain the oil...
You said you put in 2 liters and it was way too full?...
Many newbies remove the wrong bolt to drain the oil...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270090025
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Kris01
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #12 - 04/15/15 at 19:15:33
 
Has the brass plug on the idle mix screw been removed? If so, maybe it has been rejetted.

Let me try to find a picture.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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Kris01
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Eat, sleep, RIDE!

Posts: 3767
Tennessee
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #13 - 04/15/15 at 19:16:34
 
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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Dave
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #14 - 04/16/15 at 03:15:00
 
Sitting 2 months is enough time for the ethanol fuel to corrode something in the carb. It is also enough time that the fuel can begin to degrade...fresher fuel may help considerably.

Most likely it is more apt to stall when you open the throttle more....because the RPM's are higher.  When the engine is spinning and you close the throttle after the "BROOM"....the jets that meter fuel are all closed except the idle (pilot) circuit.  The high vacuum pulls a lot of air past the slide and butterfly - but there is very little fuel to mix with it and the fuel mixture therefore goes horribly lean.  The TEV valve in the carb is supposed to help with this condition....and it may be plugged up.  I also believe the TEV was set up to work with ethanol free fuel - and it may not richen the mixture enough with E10 to correct for the lean condition.

Make sure your idle is high enough, add some Seafoam or other fuel system cleaner, and avoid going "BROOM" if that make the bike stall.  There really isn't any reason to go "BROOM"....the bike doesn't achieve any benefit from that - just gently open the throttle and ride the bike....cracking the throttle open on this bike really doesn't serve any purpose.  If after running a few tanks of fuel through the bike the situation doesn't return to normal or the bike is not running well...then take the carb apart and clean it.

If you have not been riding the bike and that black plug condition was discovered after starting the bike on choke and warming it up in the driveway.....don't worry about it.  You really need to take the bike out and ride it and get it fully warmed up before a plug reading has any meaning.
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