SuzukiSavage.com - valve stems

Art Webb

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Re: valve stems
Reply #15 - 03/02/15 at 08:11:10

Dave wrote on 03/02/15 at 03:14:12:

Steve H wrote on 03/01/15 at 16:06:07:

My 76 Goldwing had tubeless tires. Spoked rims.

You can mount tubeless tires on a spoked rim - but it requires you to have a tube in the tire as the air will still leak out the spoke nipple holes.

Here is a link to the rear wheel on a 1976 Honda 750 - it shows a spoked wheel, a rim strip, a tube, and a tire.
http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2451478&categ...

If you are running tubeless tires and no tube on your Honda - then someone must have done something to seal up all the spoke holes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJueZ5prnU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlItWwxiRvs

I really don't believe that converting rims is a good idea....tubeless rims have a small lip to keep the tire seated on the rim, and spoked rims don't have this lip built into them.

No not a good idea, but the factory could have used a design like the 450 Honda Rebel and we wouldn't be saddled with tubes Wink

I take function over form, the use of tubes creates a weak link, I'd be fine with non tubed spoked, cast, or even the 'solid' used on the back of some Harleys'
unfortunately there's no 'plug n play' wheel like that available for the S40

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: valve stems
Reply #16 - 03/02/15 at 08:54:43

Art Webb wrote on 03/01/15 at 10:11:50:

why do we have to put up with the problematic tubed design on a bike in this day and age?

---------------

It's a two-fold answer.

1. The LS-650 is one of Suzuki's lowest priced bikes. Therefore every part and design choice is made with cost being a significant factor. Spoked wheels are very inexpensive to produce.

2. They are appropriate for the design. At about 50 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheel the bike has to use a cast wheel, but below that spokes make sense because they are lighter AND most of the weight is centralized at the hub so they require less power to accelerate and stop (leading to lighter and less expensive brake components too). For example, dirt bikes continue to use spoked wheels because they are lighter then cast wheels. A MotoGP bike can't use spoked wheels because they make too much torque.

Low cost, light weight..what's not for a bike designer to like?

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Art Webb

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Re: valve stems
Reply #17 - 03/02/15 at 09:02:37

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 03/02/15 at 08:54:43:

Art Webb wrote on 03/01/15 at 10:11:50:

why do we have to put up with the problematic tubed design on a bike in this day and age?

---------------

It's a two-fold answer.

1. The LS-650 is one of Suzuki's lowest priced bikes. Therefore every part and design choice is made with cost being a significant factor. Spoked wheels are very inexpensive to produce.

2. They are appropriate for the design. At about 50 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheel the bike has to use a cast wheel, but below that spokes make sense because they are lighter AND most of the weight is centralized at the hub so they require less power to accelerate and stop (leading to lighter and less expensive brake components too). For example, dirt bikes continue to use spoked wheels because they are lighter then cast wheels. A MotoGP bike can't use spoked wheels because they make too much torque.

Low cost, light weight..what's not for a bike designer to like?

again, there are designs of spoked wheels that don't require tubes, so why do we have to be subject to that?

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Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2630 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: valve stems Reply #18 - 03/02/15 at 09:33:03 Art Webb wrote on 03/02/15 at 09:02:37: again, there are designs of spoked wheels that don't require tubes, so why do we have to be subject to that? ------------- Because they're cheap, low-cost, inexpensive, low value, economy priced or in a single word...ECONOMICAL.
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Art Webb

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Re: valve stems
Reply #19 - 03/02/15 at 09:42:44

so you think Honda's Rebel 450 used an expensive, hi cost, high value, un economy priced, in a word, uneconomical wheel? on a 450? really?
true they might cost $20 or so more to produce, but would a $40 higher price for the bike have turned that many people off? and then there's the cost saved by lack of need for tubes, but those are probably like $2 apiece if you're a manufacturer

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: valve stems
Reply #20 - 03/02/15 at 10:09:08

I’m sorry Art. Apparently I can’t provide you with an answer that meets your needs. Nor am I in the position of providing every cost/value consideration for all of the major motorcycle manufacturers. I suggest you take this up with Suzuki.

Steve Younan
Director of Marketing
Suzuki Motor of America, Inc.
P.O. BOX 1100
Brea, CA 92822-1100

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My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG

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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: valve stems Reply #21 - 03/02/15 at 10:38:47 Hahahaha touche! Maybe I'll write him at that, might be interesting to see what his reply would be I'm guessing none
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17893 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: valve stems Reply #22 - 03/02/15 at 10:51:04 I just looked to see that the Honda 450 Rebel had to make the tubeless work. They have the nipples in the hub and a rim with a flange in the middle that the spokes hook into. Not a great look.....but I guess it works fine and could be cost effective if you made enough of them.
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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: valve stems Reply #23 - 03/02/15 at 10:55:12 it's different that's for sure
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v-pilot Senior Member Offline Loud bikes rule! Posts: 257 Rexford NY Gender:	Re: valve stems Reply #24 - 03/02/15 at 14:34:34 Akront of Spain did that a long time ago. Mostly for small dirt bikes like Moto Beta...called it the Nervi rim
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