SuzukiSavage.com - Help! My Savage refuses to start!

winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #15 - 06/24/13 at 08:09:51

Charon wrote on 06/24/13 at 08:00:00:

Ya know, on reading through this thread, I wonder whether the "mechanic" removed the stator cover, replaced it with the washer incorrectly installed, then decided the starter was bad when it wouldn't crank the engine. Could be, the original starter is still good.

You know what Charon? You might be right. The mechanic told me that the starter "bench tested fine, but isn't able to crank the engine" and concluded that there was a short in the starter motor.

I don't even know what he was doing with the stator cover off! Undecided

Now one point of detail - the mech told me that he was able to push-start the bike down a hill... would one even be able to push start the bike if the washer was installed incorrectly?

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Charon

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #16 - 06/24/13 at 08:27:30

winterwalker wrote on 06/24/13 at 08:09:51:

Charon wrote on 06/24/13 at 08:00:00:

Ya know, on reading through this thread, I wonder whether the "mechanic" removed the stator cover, replaced it with the washer incorrectly installed, then decided the starter was bad when it wouldn't crank the engine. Could be, the original starter is still good.

You know what Charon? You might be right. The mechanic told me that the starter "bench tested fine, but isn't able to crank the engine" and concluded that there was a short in the starter motor.

I don't even know what he was doing with the stator cover off! Undecided

Now one point of detail - the mech told me that he was able to push-start the bike down a hill... would one even be able to push start the bike if the washer was installed incorrectly?

I don't know whether anyone has tried it. Since push-starting doesn't use any part of the starter drive system it ought to work.

I think there may be some confusion on terminology. The round cover which requires the three-sided tool for removal is not the stator cover. It is an inspection plug that allows you to turn the engine and see the timing mark. The stator cover is much larger, and is the part into which that inspection plug fits.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start! Reply #17 - 06/24/13 at 08:36:54 Since the starter gears are not rotating.......the engine could run just fine with the starter gears screwed up. The one-way clutch on the engine will not try to drive the starter gears.....unless you shut it off and it tries to turn backwards as can happen when the piston hits the compression stroke on the shut-down!
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winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #18 - 06/24/13 at 09:04:45

Charon wrote on 06/24/13 at 08:00:00:

I think there may be some confusion on terminology. The round cover which requires the three-sided tool for removal is not the stator cover. It is an inspection plug that allows you to turn the engine and see the timing mark. The stator cover is much larger, and is the part into which that inspection plug fits.

You're right Charon - I was confused! I was under the impression that the inspection plug had to be removed to get the stator cover off. Thank you for setting me straight!

That being the case, now I'm not sure if the stator cover was removed - I suppose the mechanic may have had cause to remove the inspection plug. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and call... not looking forward to that... we exchanged some terse words after what they put me through (loooong story).

Thanks! Guess I'd better get cracking...

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87 savage

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #19 - 06/24/13 at 16:42:05

Winterwalker, yup you will have to drain the oil before pulling the stator cover. If he did remove the cover I would imagine he used a new cover gasket. If he didn't use sealer on both sides ( or neither side) you should be able to reuse it. If you do decide to pull the cover, the magnets on the rotor hang on like hell, so don't go nuts trying to pry it off with a screwdriver. Once you verify you have pulled ALL the bolts, you will have to rock the cover off the pins. If you have to stick something between the cover and the crankcase, use wood or plastic shims, it WILL come off.
Good luck

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winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #20 - 06/25/13 at 10:02:55

87 savage wrote on 06/24/13 at 16:42:05:

Winterwalker, yup you will have to drain the oil before pulling the stator cover. If he did remove the cover I would imagine he used a new cover gasket. If he didn't use sealer on both sides ( or neither side) you should be able to reuse it. If you do decide to pull the cover, the magnets on the rotor hang on like hell, so don't go nuts trying to pry it off with a screwdriver. Once you verify you have pulled ALL the bolts, you will have to rock the cover off the pins. If you have to stick something between the cover and the crankcase, use wood or plastic shims, it WILL come off.
Good luck

Thanks Savage! I would have hated to start cracking it open only to have oil pour out everwhere. Shocked

I'm not assuming anything in this case - a reliable mechanic very likely would have used a new gasket, but through my dealings with this guy, he's proven to be a total moron and has cut corners at every opportunity. So, I'm not betting on finding a shiny new gasket in there.

Thanks for the tip about the magnets!

Charon, Dave, y'all were absolutely right - the washer is installed on the gear that meshes with the starter. I was unable to move the gear in either direction by hand and I could actually feel the washer sitting on the starter side of the gear.
I'm beyond ticked off at this "mechanic" - this is only one of a ridiculous series of issues I've had with this guy. If he wasn't such a dofus I'd insist that he fix it at his cost. Angry

If anyone in or around Boston is interested to know who the mechanic is in order to avoid the shop, PM me.

Anyway... I picked up a Clymer and as far as I can tell, taking the Stator cover off seems to require removing the drive belt and pulley - is that accurate, or is it possible to remove the stator cover without going through that?

Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate of how much time it will take to cary out this fix including breakdown and assembly time?

Thank you all so much! I've been pulling my hair out for over a month trying to troubleshoot this issue and getting no where until now!

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Dave

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #21 - 06/25/13 at 10:40:25

My quick approach repair would be:

Drain the oil.
Lean the bike over on the right somehow.......being supported by the kickstand will make it horribly inconvenient.
The drive pulley will not interfere - but the wiring for the stator needs to be loose and you might have to take the drive pulley off to get to the wiring.
Remove the screws holding the mag cover on.
Carefully rock the cover loose and pull it off.
Both of the washers go on the gear that is nearest the flywheel - no washers on the rear gear.
Put it all back together.....add oil.

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winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #22 - 06/26/13 at 07:09:21

Dave wrote on 06/25/13 at 10:40:25:

My quick approach repair would be:

Drain the oil.
Lean the bike over on the right somehow.......being supported by the kickstand will make it horribly inconvenient.
The drive pulley will not interfere - but the wiring for the stator needs to be loose and you might have to take the drive pulley off to get to the wiring.
Remove the screws holding the mag cover on.
Carefully rock the cover loose and pull it off.
Both of the washers go on the gear that is nearest the flywheel - no washers on the rear gear.
Put it all back together.....add oil.

Thank you Dave! You were right - the pulley did not need to come off. Phew! And really, taking the stator cover off while on the side-stand wasn't so bad. The only thing that gave me trouble was the stator cover bolt that sits behind the side-stand/clutch cluster. That thing was a bear to get out! I'll need to pick up a few new tools for next time.

So, the good news is that I managed to teardown and move the washer successfully - took about 2 hours start to finish for anyone who is interested/ might need to deal with this issue.

The bad news is the Gasket was indeed old and tore at the top of one of the bolt holes. So now, the bike starts up and runs (woo hoo!) but spits oil out from between the stator cover and body. Undecided

I've ordered a new gasket and hopefully will have it here by Friday. (Crossing my fingers)

I guess the silver-lining here is that when I repeat the process to replace the gasket, I'll know what I'm doing and it should go more smoothly. Also, I'll be able to photograph the process and post a write-up here. Maybe that'll help someone else down the road.

One question - after getting the bike back together and starting her up, I noticed that shifting in idle was difficult and pretty inconsistent. Is that just a matter of the oil needing to work through, or am I looking at a different issue now?

Thanks!

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verslagen1

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #23 - 06/26/13 at 07:55:08

winterwalker wrote on 06/26/13 at 07:09:21:

One question - after getting the bike back together and starting her up, I noticed that shifting in idle was difficult and pretty inconsistent. Is that just a matter of the oil needing to work through, or am I looking at a different issue now?

Thanks!

check you idle speed and clutch adjustments 1st
when cold, the clutch can be a little sticky causing a clunk when you shove it in gear.

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winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #24 - 06/26/13 at 10:12:34

verslagen1 wrote on 06/26/13 at 07:55:08:

winterwalker wrote on 06/26/13 at 07:09:21:

One question - after getting the bike back together and starting her up, I noticed that shifting in idle was difficult and pretty inconsistent. Is that just a matter of the oil needing to work through, or am I looking at a different issue now?

Thanks!

check you idle speed and clutch adjustments 1st
when cold, the clutch can be a little sticky causing a clunk when you shove it in gear.

Cool - I'll check those out. Thanks verslagen!

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winterwalker

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Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start!
Reply #25 - 06/26/13 at 11:35:19

Oh, one other thing I want to mention/ask before I get around to replacing the gasket:

When I had the stator cover off, I noticed a circlip (c-clip) on the stator-facing side of Starter idle gear No.1 (the one nearest the flywheel). I don't see that reflected in the Clymer manual, the 2001 Parts List that TMACK-1 created, or any other image/diagram I can find.

Anyone know if that's supposed to be there? If not, could leaving it on cause any problems?

Thanks

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28888 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start! Reply #26 - 06/26/13 at 12:17:44 leave it be, take that off and it won't work. i.e., you'll have the starter free spinning, no starty been there, fixed that, twernt easy.
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winterwalker YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 25 Portland, OR Gender:	Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start! Reply #27 - 06/26/13 at 12:26:53 verslagen1 wrote on 06/26/13 at 12:17:44: leave it be, take that off and it won't work. i.e., you'll have the starter free spinning, no starty been there, fixed that, twernt easy. Yeesh - good to know. Thanks verslagen! Jeeze, you'd think a piece that important'd show up somewhere.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28888 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start! Reply #28 - 06/26/13 at 13:39:46 You can only get that as a unit, and it's not a good idea to take it apart.
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87 savage Full Member Offline Gone riding! Posts: 249 Maine Gender:	Re: Help! My Savage refuses to start! Reply #29 - 06/27/13 at 02:13:11 verslagen1 wrote on 06/26/13 at 13:39:46: You can only get that as a unit, and it's not a good idea to take it apart. +1 !!
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