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Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children. (Read 1880 times)
Paraquat
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #180 - 12/27/12 at 11:04:33
 
You're right. That's why the O'Leary cow fire was only contained to his barn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

We should ban fire. Put stricter regulations on lighters and matches.


--Steve
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #181 - 12/27/12 at 11:58:36
 
Maybe we should ban cow people instead of sheeple

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #182 - 12/27/12 at 12:42:10
 
Paraquat wrote on 12/27/12 at 11:04:33:
You're right. That's why the O'Leary cow fire was only contained to his barn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

We should ban fire. Put stricter regulations on lighters and matches.


--Steve

We have better building codes and better fire departments to mention a few things.
So simply put we need to send kids to school in bullet proof vests and have cops patrol the schools ? I guess as long as the gun companies are paying for it I'm cool with that.
Cool.
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #183 - 12/27/12 at 18:47:18
 
MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of an outright ban on lighters and matches you examine the problem and come up with a logical solution. Not a knee jerk emotional reaction to a problem you'll never be able to correct.
Ban all lighters? That's just silly.


--Steve
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #184 - 12/27/12 at 18:47:53
 
Feinstein Goes For Broke With New Gun-Ban Bill
Posted on December 27, 2012

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Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)—author of the federal “assault weapon” and “large” ammunition magazine ban of 1994-2004—has announced that on the first day of the new Congress—January 3rd— she will introduce a bill to which her 1994 ban will pale by comparison. On Dec. 17th, Feinstein said, “I have been working with my staff for over a year on this legislation” and “It will be carefully focused.” Indicating the depth of her research on the issue, she said on Dec. 21st that she had personally looked at pictures of guns in 1993, and again in 2012.
According to a Dec. 27th posting on Sen. Feinstein’s website and a draft of the bill obtained by NRA-ILA, the new ban would, among other things, adopt new definitions of “assault weapon” that would affect a much larger variety of firearms, require current owners of such firearms to register them with the federal government under the National Firearms Act, and require forfeiture of the firearms upon the deaths of their current owners. Some of the changes in Feinstein’s new bill are as follows:
•Reduces, from two to one, the number of permitted external features on various firearms.  The 1994 ban permitted various firearms to be manufactured only if they were assembled with no more than one feature listed in the law. Feinstein’s new bill would prohibit the manufacture of the same firearms with even one of the features.

•Adopts new lists of prohibited external features. For example, whereas the 1994 ban applied to a rifle or shotgun the “pistol grip” of which “protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,” the new bill would drastically expand the definition to include any “grip . . . or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.” Also, the new bill adds “forward grip” to the list of prohibiting features for rifles, defining it as “a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.” Read literally and in conjunction with the reduction from two features to one, the new language would apply to every detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifle. At a minimum, it would, for example, ban all models of the AR-15, even those developed for compliance with California’s highly restrictive ban.

• Carries hyperbole further than the 1994 ban. Feinstein’s 1994 ban listed “grenade launcher” as one of the prohibiting features for rifles. Her 2013 bill carries goes even further into the ridiculous, by also listing “rocket launcher.” Such devices are restricted under the National Firearms Act and, obviously, are not standard components of the firearms Feinstein wants to ban. Perhaps a subsequent Feinstein bill will add “nuclear bomb,” “particle beam weapon,” or something else equally far-fetched to the features list.
•Expands the definition of “assault weapon” by including:


•Three very popular rifles: The M1 Carbine (introduced in 1944 and for many years sold by the federal government to individuals involved in marksmanship competition), a model of the Ruger Mini-14, and most or all models of the SKS.

•Any “semiautomatic, centerfire, or rimfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds,” except for tubular-magazine .22s.

•Any “semiautomatic, centerfire, or rimfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches,” any “semiautomatic handgun with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds,” and any semi-automatic handgun that has a threaded barrel.

•Requires owners of existing “assault weapons” to register them with the federal government under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The NFA imposes a $200 tax per firearm, and requires an owner to submit photographs and fingerprints to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), to inform the BATFE of the address where the firearm will be kept, and to obtain the BATFE’s permission to transport the firearm across state lines.

•Prohibits the transfer of “assault weapons.” Owners of other firearms, including those covered by the NFA, are permitted to sell them or pass them to heirs. However, under Feinstein’s new bill, “assault weapons” would remain with their current owners until their deaths, at which point they would be forfeited to the government.

•Prohibits the domestic manufacture and the importation of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The 1994 ban allowed the importation of such magazines that were manufactured before the ban took effect. Whereas the 1994 ban protected gun owners from errant prosecution by making the government prove when a magazine was made, the new ban includes no such protection. The new ban also requires firearm dealers to certify the date of manufacture of any >10-round magazine sold, a virtually impossible task, given that virtually no magazines are stamped with their date of manufacture.

•Targets handguns in defiance of the Supreme Court. The Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller that the Second Amendment protects the right to have handguns for self-defense, in large part on the basis of the fact handguns are the type of firearm “overwhelmingly chosen by American society for that lawful purpose.” Semi-automatic pistols, which are the most popular handguns today, are designed to use detachable magazines, and the magazines “overwhelmingly chosen” by Americans for self-defense are those that hold more than 10 rounds. Additionally, Feinstein’s list of nearly 1,000 firearms exempted by name (see next paragraph) contains not a single handgun. Sen. Feinstein advocated banning handguns before being elected to the Senate, though she carried a handgun for her own personal protection.

•Contains a larger piece of window dressing than the 1994 ban. Whereas the 1994 ban included a list of approximately 600 rifles and shotguns exempted from the ban by name, the new bill’s list is increased to nearly 1,000 rifles and shotguns. Other than for the 11 detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles and one other semi-automatic rifle included in the list, however, the list appears to be pointless, because a separate provision of the bill exempts “any firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action.”


The Department of Justice study. On her website, Feinstein claims that a study for the DOJ found that the 1994 ban resulted in a 6.7 percent decrease in murders. To the contrary, this is what the study said: “At best, the assault weapons ban can have only a limited effect on total gun murders, because the banned weapons and magazines were never involved in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders. Our best estimate is that the ban contributed to a 6.7 percent decrease in total gun murders between 1994 and 1995. . . . However, with only one year of post-ban data, we cannot rule out the possibility that this decrease reflects chance year-to-year variation rather than a true effect of the ban.  Nor can we rule out effects of other features of the 1994 Crime Act or a host of state and local initiatives that took place simultaneously.”
“Assault weapon” numbers and murder trends. From the imposition of Feinstein's “assault weapon” ban (Sept. 13, 1994) through the present, the number of “assault weapons” has risen dramatically. For example, the most common firearm that Feinstein considers an “assault weapon” is the AR-15 rifle, the manufacturing numbers of which can be gleaned from the BATFE’s firearm manufacturer reports, availablehere. From 1995 through 2011, the number of AR-15s—all models of which Feinstein’s new bill defines as “assault weapons”—rose by over 2.5 million. During the same period, the nation's murder rate fell 48 percent, to a 48-year low. According to the FBI, 8.5 times as many people are murdered with knives, blunt objects and bare hands, as with rifles of any type.

Traces: Feinstein makes several claims, premised on firearm traces, hoping to convince people that her 1994 ban reduced the (relatively infrequent) use of “assault weapons” in crime. However, traces do not indicate how often any type of gun is used in crime. As the Congressional Research Service and the BATFE have explained, not all firearms that are traced have been used in crime, and not all firearms used in crime are traced. Whether a trace occurs depends on whether a law enforcement agency requests that a trace be conducted. Given that existing “assault weapons” were exempted from the 1994 ban and new “assault weapons” continued to be made while the ban was in effect, any reduction in the percentage of traces accounted for by “assault weapons” during the ban, would be attributable to law enforcement agencies losing interest in tracing the firearms, or law enforcement agencies increasing their requests for traces on other types of firearms, as urged by the BATFE for more than a decade.

Call Your U.S. Senators and Representative: As noted, Feinstein intends to introduce her bill on January 3rd. President Obama has said that gun control will be a “central issue” of his final term in office, and he has vowed to move quickly on it.

Contact your members of Congress at 202-224-3121 to urge them to oppose Sen. Feinstein’s 2013 gun and magazine ban. Our elected representatives in Congress must here from you if we are going to defeat this gun ban proposal. You can write your Representatives and Senators by using our Write Your Representatives tool here: http://www.nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/write-your-reps.aspx

Millions of Americans own so-called “assault weapons” and tens of millions own “large” magazines, for self-defense, target shooting, and hunting. For more information about thehistory of the “assault weapon” issue, please visit www.GunBanFacts.com.


http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal-legislation/2012/feinstein-goes-for...

I said it before on this forum. I hate this woman.


--Steve
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #185 - 12/27/12 at 19:22:57
 
 The NRA is not a viable source for information.. They are only teasing the paranoid to run out and buy up weapons...
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #187 - 12/28/12 at 06:41:19
 
 Better run out and buy some guns... It still won't pass, everytime somebody hears a rumor or a bill being introduced the NRA (In all its wisdom) pushes it as a "Buy more guns" fear tactic.. It used to be a good organization, teaching gun safety, and promoting the sport, it is now a political hate group, everybody gotta have a gun, pay us, kinda group..
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #188 - 12/28/12 at 18:45:35
 
Retread wrote on 12/28/12 at 06:41:19:
 Better run out and buy some guns... It still won't pass, everytime somebody hears a rumor or a bill being introduced the NRA (In all its wisdom) pushes it as a "Buy more guns" fear tactic.. It used to be a good organization, teaching gun safety, and promoting the sport, it is now a political hate group, everybody gotta have a gun, pay us, kinda group..


Exactly wrong.  The NRA has 65,000 some odd safety instructors each conducting several safety courses annually.  

With likes of the SCHLIB and Feinstein and Schumer making the rules, and bypassing Congress with illegal schemes like executive orders, it is quite understandable the NRA would be more outspoken,,.... to make sure the public doesn't get schnookered more than they are already.

I'm truly glad the NRA is there, doing what it does.  Otherwise the SCHLIB would have his way, take guns away from everyone, and give a huge advantage to criminals and government,... oops, I was superfluous there for a sec.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #189 - 12/28/12 at 20:30:57
 
Gyrobob wrote on 12/28/12 at 18:45:35:
Retread wrote on 12/28/12 at 06:41:19:
 Better run out and buy some guns... It still won't pass, everytime somebody hears a rumor or a bill being introduced the NRA (In all its wisdom) pushes it as a "Buy more guns" fear tactic.. It used to be a good organization, teaching gun safety, and promoting the sport, it is now a political hate group, everybody gotta have a gun, pay us, kinda group..


Exactly wrong.  The NRA has 65,000 some odd safety instructors each conducting several safety courses annually.  

With likes of the SCHLIB and Feinstein and Schumer making the rules, and bypassing Congress with illegal schemes like executive orders, it is quite understandable the NRA would be more outspoken,,.... to make sure the public doesn't get schnookered more than they are already.

I'm truly glad the NRA is there, doing what it does.  Otherwise the SCHLIB would have his way, take guns away from everyone, and give a huge advantage to criminals and government,... oops, I was superfluous there for a sec.



  Yep, and they charge big bucks for every safety course! Its not about gun safety, its about how many schnooks they can milk, and how many guns their backers (Gun manufacters) can sell... They are cutting their own throats....
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #190 - 12/28/12 at 22:32:39
 
"I'm truly glad the NRA is there, doing what it does.  Otherwise the SCHLIB would have his way, take guns away from everyone, and give a huge advantage to criminals and government"...Parquat
Jezuss! what horsesh!t...you still think that you will defend yourself from the US government with your toys?? Grin Grin

I've posted this before, and I'll post it again.

The NRA currently has Ted Nugent sitting on their Board of Directors, Nugent has advocated the assassination of Barack Obama on at least three seperate occasions yet the NRA continues to allow him to sit on their Board and speak for the organization.

The NRA is the most dangerous domestic terrorist organization in America. Before anything can ever be done to curb gun violence in this nation the NRA must be dealt with..banned, dismantled, sued, ridiculed, fought against with seething righteous anger. It must go and be forever banned. Then the politicians can address gun issues from the perspective of intelligence, common sense, and the will of the people without having to bow and scrape to this gang of thugs.
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #191 - 12/28/12 at 22:54:52
 
Mother of Youngest Sandy Hook Victim Gives Wrenching Interview.

<snip>

Mrs. Pozner also recalls the gut-wrenching trauma of learning about her son’s death as she waited with other Sandy Hook parents and children in a nearby firehouse:

For hours, she sat in the firehouse, waiting. Her stomach clenched; she vomited in the bathroom. When she came out there was pizza and donuts, but she couldn’t eat. Soon, nuns, priests, ministers and a rabbi arrived. “When I saw all those clergy people I knew in my gut of guts and my heart of hearts that they were dead,” she recalls. “I knew there was absolutely no way they would dispatch this multi-denominational fan of clergy people were it not the case that the news would be absolutely catastrophic.”

Finally, an official announcement was made: 20 child fatalities. “That is when, for me, my whole world shifted on its axis,” she says. “It was like you are sitting in a room, and everything, including you, is turned upside down and you are sitting on the ceiling instead of the floor. You have this surreal sense of void, like all the air has been sucked out of the room.” Veronique wanted to place a blanket on Noah. “They told us, ‘No, it is a crime scene.’ They would not let us go.”

And in a harrowing description of Noah’s corpse laid to rest, some idea is given of the damage the assault weapon wrought on his young body:

The family placed stuffed animals, a blanket and letters to Noah into the casket. Lastly, Veronique put a clear plastic rock with a white angel inside —an “angel stone” — in his right hand. She asked the funeral director to place an identical one in his left, which was badly mangled. Noah’s famously long eyelashes, which she spoke about in her eulogy, rested lightly on his cheeks and a cloth covered the place where his lower jaw had been.

<end of snip>

And yet some still want to argue that having this capability is some sort of "right".

These innocent sweet children taken from this world so brutally. So senslessly...

Ah Right, The NRA Says...we can solve this kind of thing, all we need is more guns, more and more guns in America.

This is our Nations Shame. No one Can stop the violence. However we can and must stop the guns!

"Now that a few more days have passed since this mass murder by a nut, let's try a little perspective.

Hundreds of kids this age and younger die each year from abusive parents and baby sitters who shake them or otherwise physically abuse them.  Maybe your efforts ought to go toward preventing that.

Hundreds of kids this age or younger drown each year in backyard swimming pools - would you ban pools?

What about the parents who have fatal car wrecks, killing thier kids, while yapping on a cell phone?  Hundreds of kids die each year from this also." Jerry


"Ban parents. Ban reproducing... We should ban fire. Put stricter regulations on lighters and matches. " Paraquat


...Never mind guns, LOOK over there, a kid drowned in a swimming pool!!...and and LOOK over there, someone is shaking a baby!!!

OOooo and look over here, a child died in an automobile accident!!! See See See, look at all the carnage!!!...(psst, but never mind guns...hee hee.)


( Note: Jerry, I'm somewhat suprised that a man of your intellengence and character is defending the crazies. While we are discussing and demanding what to do, may I respectfully ask that you stop and take a look at what is happening in this country...take a GOOD look...you may not like what you see.)

And to Parquat, go sell stupid somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #192 - 12/29/12 at 07:17:52
 
I think the letter in the WSJ today sums up exactly what I also think is the current lay of the land regarding school shootings and gun laws.  The one fact we should all be able to agree on is this shooting could have never taken place at the private school where the President (and Meet the Press's David Gregory) sends his kids because of the presence of trained, armed guards.

By ROBERT BERNAT

I am not a member of the National Rifle Association, nor am I a member or contributor to any Second Amendment rights group. I am, however, a parent of young children who attend a grammar school not unlike Sandy Hook Elementary in an affluent community not dissimilar to Newtown, Conn. Like the entire nation, I grieve for those who lost their lives at the hands of Adam Lanza in a truly senseless and barbaric act.

Most Americans agree that dramatic steps must be taken to prevent the recurrence of a horrible event like that of Dec. 14, 2012. Just what steps should be taken is a matter of disagreement. After considerable thought I have sadly concluded that Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, is correct when he advocates for armed security in the country's more than 100,000 schools.

The solution is only a partial one, but placing armed, highly trained personnel on school premises will move the country more swiftly toward its goal of safer schools than the complex steps being offered up by legislators and commentators alike on Sunday-morning talk shows.

In fact, many of the attractive solutions bandied about stand little chance of ameliorating the problem of gun violence directed at school children or are only long-term measures that cannot yield immediate results. For example, it is not viable, nor is it likely constitutional, to undertake the suggestion of Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D., N.Y.), which is simply to outlaw all guns. Americans reportedly own more than 300 million guns, of which tens of millions are semiautomatic assault weapons. The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back.

A blanket ban on the commercial sale of assault-type rifles and large-capacity magazines would also impart a false and dangerous sense of security to parents. Had such a law been in place and inhibited Adam Lanza's access to a Bushmaster AR-15 and high-capacity magazines, the results of his rampage would have likely been identical. He could have blown open the front door of the school with the shotgun that he left in his car trunk, and once inside the classrooms he could have reloaded his Glock and Sig Sauer pistols at lightning speed with fresh low-capacity magazines.

It is widely agreed, in the wake of Sandy Hook, that the country's mental-health system needs radical reworking. It was reported that there are at least 70,000 violent, mentally ill individuals walking America's streets at any given time. Several observers have noted that the perpetrators of mass slayings at educational institutions tend to be white males, age 17-24, socially isolated, introverted individuals who dwell significantly in the videogame world.

Perhaps there is a constitutional and medically rigorous method to screen for and profile psychologically such inherently dangerous individuals and thereby intercept them before the carnage. Perhaps not. The country should commit the resources both legally and medically to find out, but this is a long-term proposition fraught with privacy-law concerns. It will not in any event yield the immediate security so desperately needed.

The killers' immersion in videogames has brought to the fore a welcome discussion of what role popular culture plays in desensitizing young males to violence. The casual carnage in movies and videogames may well affect some susceptible young men so profoundly that they are indifferent to the reality and finality of pointing a real weapon at a human being and then pulling the trigger. But this is a societal issue wrapped in the First Amendment and, again, no prompt solutions will emerge from discussions of the matter.

After the terrible killings at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999, almost every school in America put in place emergency plans intended to prevent a similar attack. The grammar school with which I'm most familiar has a lockdown plan similar to the one instituted at Sandy Hook Elementary, including a buzzer system to gain entry after vetting by the school secretary through a window, deadbolt locks on classroom doors, and evacuation drills for students and faculty.

What happened at Sandy Hook was not the failure to plan; it was the failure of the plan. The teachers and administrative staff executed their school district's plan heroically in trying to save lives, some at the loss of their own. Police departments changed their policies after Columbine and now rush to the source of an incident inside a school building at great risk to themselves. But a major flaw in such plans persists to this day—namely that it takes just a few unguarded minutes for a catastrophe to unfold.

I have no desire to turn my children's school into an armed camp. But I firmly believe that had there been armed, trained security personnel anywhere near the front entrance of Sandy Hook Elementary on the morning of Dec. 14, Adam Lanza either never would have approached the school or his attack would have had a radically different outcome.

One-third of the nation's elementary, middle and high schools reportedly already have armed security on campus. In 2000, President Clinton marked the one-year anniversary of Columbine by proposing a significant expansion of the government's existing "COPS in Schools" program. Now that the National Rifle Association's Mr. LaPierre has made a similar proposal, he is being ridiculed. Why?

Dr. Bernat is a physician and attorney in Highland Park, Ill.
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #193 - 12/29/12 at 07:28:50
 
Classic lies from the repugs.
Yea put cops in schools ... and cut down government ... How the Fruck does those 2 even go in the same sentence.

This is what gun nuts want to talk about. Anything but guns.
One fool on the radio, who owned a gun store in wyoming claimed the pencil in his pocket was anassault weapon, cos the govt taught him to do something with it ... yea, stick it in your enemy's eye. OK that is good, you killed 1 person standing within 2 feet of you, great, then what ?

Morons, gun nuts you have lost, all this BS is more along the lines of "forcible rape and shutting the whole thing down".

Cool.
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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #194 - 12/29/12 at 09:00:02
 
I don't believe anyone could find a ' classic lie' in the man's entire letter.
What classic lie; specifically?
I thought the man brought up valid points and suggested ideas.
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